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Post by bobrooks on Mar 29, 2008 9:50:21 GMT -5
Stumpfield, Have you heard from the man from Yuchai yet? How's it going?
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Post by stumpy on Apr 1, 2008 8:54:22 GMT -5
Stumpfield, Have you heard from the man from Yuchai yet? How's it going? I sent them an email but no repsonse yet.
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GuglioLS
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Jinma354 LE
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Post by GuglioLS on Apr 1, 2008 23:46:08 GMT -5
Hi Tom,
I don't really know the exact in's an outs of your particular Dozer, but based on my experience with my Komatsu Dozer, can make an educated guess. Based on the infrequent use and all the rains / moisture your have been getting. My guess is it "broke" the last time you used it. My theory is a linkage or some sort of shaft going through a bushing was rusty, the last time you used it, all it took was for the steering clutch pedal to be depressed, which dis-engaged the right drive clutch, that shaft or linkage got stuck or seized, causing the right clutch to be stuck in the dis-engaged position. It may be a simple matter of manually pulling/ pushing or twisting the rod or linkage out of the dis-engaged position with the help of some heat and WD-40 or PB blaster. Maybe take a look at it next time up at your property, it could be a simple fix and save you trying to figure out how to haul the beast to a mechanic. My Komatsu Dozer has hydraulic actuators to dis-engage the steering drive clutches, yours might be pure mechanical and very easy to fix. I think it's worth a try. When is the next time you will be at your land to maybe check it out?
Larry
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Post by stumpy on Apr 2, 2008 9:16:37 GMT -5
Hi Tom, I don't really know the exact in's an outs of your particular Dozer, but based on my experience with my Komatsu Dozer, can make an educated guess. Based on the infrequent use and all the rains / moisture your have been getting. My guess is it "broke" the last time you used it. My theory is a linkage or some sort of shaft going through a bushing was rusty, the last time you used it, all it took was for the steering clutch pedal to be depressed, which dis-engaged the right drive clutch, that shaft or linkage got stuck or seized, causing the right clutch to be stuck in the dis-engaged position. It may be a simple matter of manually pulling/ pushing or twisting the rod or linkage out of the dis-engaged position with the help of some heat and WD-40 or PB blaster. Maybe take a look at it next time up at your property, it could be a simple fix and save you trying to figure out how to haul the beast to a mechanic. My Komatsu Dozer has hydraulic actuators to dis-engage the steering drive clutches, yours might be pure mechanical and very easy to fix. I think it's worth a try. When is the next time you will be at your land to maybe check it out? Larry Thanks Larry, it's now obvious that the right drive clutch is stuck in the dis-engaged position. The last time I were there, my neighbor who suppose to have more mechanical knowledge than me... came by to help and tried everything without taking anything major apart with no luck. I'll going to my land this weekend to meet Rob's builder. I'm prepared to haul that beast out. There's an authorized Northern Tool service center about 30 miles away. It probably a good idea to have them do it and get everything fixed before the warranty expires. I'll post the details here. Lesson learned. Don't keep your equipment in one of these tent unless there's proper ventilation. Tom
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Post by stumpy on Apr 10, 2008 11:41:28 GMT -5
Still no response from Yuchai.... Taking little dozer to the shop... My extended warranty will expire this month. So, it might as well have it check and get everything fix. I did have a tough time getting it on the trailer with just 1 track turning...
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Post by stumpy on Apr 16, 2008 13:58:40 GMT -5
Just got the bad news from the service center. They confirmed that the clutch was stuck in the dis-engaged position likely due to corrosion and being lack of use. The bad news is my extended warranty does not cover this problem. They quote me 40-50 hours to tear everything apart. At $75 per hour, that's a lot of $$$ and it could cost more if they find anything else broken. I'm looking at least a $4-5k repair bill. I have no idea it will take 40-50 hours to replace the clutch? What do you think? I hope someone here have done clutch work on the dozer and give me an opinion. What's the big difference between the clutch on a dozer vs. a wheeled tractor?
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biggkidd
CTW Expert
A World Away!!!
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Post by biggkidd on Apr 16, 2008 19:11:33 GMT -5
TOm
You might try and talk to bob rooks I think he has worked on these dozer clutchs. Good Luck
Larry
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Apr 16, 2008 23:36:27 GMT -5
Tom, That's the pit's - The time sounds about right for someone who has never seen or worked on one of these, couple that with no service manual, you wind up with an outrageous time estimate. As you are quickly finding out, if you don't perform all your own maintenance and repairs, owning a dozer can be a very expensive proposition, they can quickly become a bottomless money pit over and over.
My advise would be to challenge the warranty coverage denial with extreme prejudice, be resourceful in your demand to get it fixed. What good is the extended warranty if it does not cover repairs? Could you demand a refund of the warranty for breech of contract? or threaten contacting the attorney generals office. Get Northern tool and the warranty company to work with you, maybe some sort of compromise? - do not be a nice guy, and do not offer any unsolicited information such as - 'It was out in the rain', or 'I did not use it very much', that has nothing to do with it, it's broke and the warranty should cover it, get everything in writing, take notes, and the first and last name of everyone you talk to. Keeping in mind there job is to deny coverage.
If all else fails - Do you have an illustrated parts book? Maybe one of us could figure out what's wrong. It can't be that hard to figure out what's causing the problem. I doubt the clutch is worn out, something that releases the clutch is stuck or rusted in place and just needs to be freed up.
Good luck with it.
Larry
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Post by bobrooks on Apr 17, 2008 2:40:55 GMT -5
I hate to be the purveyor of bad tidings, but unfortunately they will say it was neglected; which translates to lack of and/or improper maintenance practices. You will lose if you fight it, but if they are in a magnanamous mood, they may compromise and eat a portion of it.
I have done many steering clutch jobs, but never on a Chinese tractor (yet), and their estimate is not out of line, I believe, for a first time job with no dozer experience.
I don't see how the steering clutch could be "frozen" in the disengaged position unless you parked it with the clutch/brake pedal depressed and all of the springs lost their strength to compress the clutch pack. Not likely in my opinion. Perhaps a bearing seized and a shaft snapped? How was it running when you parked it? Were you making turns while pushing?? HUH?
The difference between the main clutch on a dozer and the main clutch on a wheeled tractor is very little save for the two stage clutch on the wheelies. I think you are confused about clutches there. Only the dozer's have steering clutches AND a main clutch. These dozer's are 50's & 60's technology: DRY CLUTCHES, which equates to "don't let them slip".
Chalk it up to a learning experience.
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Post by stumpy on Apr 17, 2008 9:33:37 GMT -5
The internet is a very small world indeed... When it comes to chinese dozer knowledge, all road points to Bob ;D ;D ;D. The guy I bought the dozer to have it repaired (refered by Northern) was posting the same exact quesiton in another chinese tractor forum to try to find out what's wrong. Small world isn't it? The power of google... I guess no one really have much hands-on experience in fixing these dozers. I'm glad he did that to research the problem while waiting for authorization from the extended warrantly company. My extended warranty it like a car insurance company which have to authorized everything before they can work on it. So far, the repair shop is trying to get 12 hours authorized but still no word on whether they are going to cover it or not. At least they haven't deny it yet....
I got all the manuals and diagrams. On top of the Yuchai manuals, Northern did a very good job of translating the manual in english and provide another operators manual.
I'm not going to lie to them. The dozer was park for at least 6-8 months. I have to tell the service center so they can properly diagnose the problem.... Before I park it, it was working perfectly. I'm not aware of anything unusual about it. I did start and warm up the engine once a while but never move it.
The only problem I ever had was a busted hydralic hose. I contacted the warranty company, order the hose from northern and the warranty company sent me a check. I replaced the hose myself and that was the only incident that I have to deal with the warrantly company during my entire ownership of the dozer. I gave them a AAA+ on their service. They don't even ask to see or sent back the broken hose. They just took my word for it.
The dozer has 73 hours on the meter. It's unlikely anything really worn out. So it probably just a logical guess that corrosion was the problem. At this point, I don't think anyone really know for sure until he takes apart to see what's inside. The only thing holding it up now is to get the extended warranty company to approve the work. If they don't cover the repair cost, I'll just take it home and try to work on it myself. It will an interesting learning experience.
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Post by bobrooks on May 12, 2008 23:16:23 GMT -5
How is it going? Anything new?
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Post by stumpy on May 14, 2008 12:14:49 GMT -5
How is it going? Anything new? The situation gets worst... Warranty company will not cover anything except for broken parts if it's due to defects covered under the terms of the warranty fine prints.... While it's in the shop, I was informed now the dozer won't move at all. Something broke again while parking at the repair shop waiting for warranty claim authorization. I'm looking at 40 hours of labor just for him to tear it apart to see what's the problem (just 1 side of the steering clutch and the other side mostly like need service too). According to him, the total cost of labor alone will exceed the value of the dozer This dozer is a piece of junk and probably not worth to fix it. So, my dozer that was running fine with a steering problem is now "scrap metal" I'm totally stuck and got myself into a terrible situtation here. I want to just haul it home and deal with it myself. However, it's now not moving and it's at a repair shop 300 miles away from home. I won't be able to drive it on the trailer. My only option was to paid for the repair or sell it as 6600 lbs of "scrap metal". What would you do if you were in my situation now
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Post by linus69 on May 14, 2008 15:32:37 GMT -5
Hey Tom, sorry to see this dozer continue to give you grief. I would try to get it home if at all possible. Does this place seem to be reputable or shifty in your opinion, did the working side quit while in their care? If forced to sell I would list it on Ebay and the buyer can pick it up at this service center. I certainly wouldn`t sell it for scrap and I would be skeptical if this place offers to buy it. I think it looks pretty nice in the photo, not abused. It definitely has value even broken, the parts are often sold off for more than the unit as a whole.
Paul
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Post by stumpy on May 14, 2008 18:19:08 GMT -5
Hey Tom, sorry to see this dozer continue to give you grief. I would try to get it home if at all possible. Does this place seem to be reputable or shifty in your opinion, did the working side quit while in their care? If forced to sell I would list it on Ebay and the buyer can pick it up at this service center. I certainly wouldn`t sell it for scrap and I would be skeptical if this place offers to buy it. I think it looks pretty nice in the photo, not abused. It definitely has value even broken, the parts are often sold off for more than the unit as a whole. Paul I'm not very familiar with this repair shop and don't have any reason to believe it's shifty. The guy ran this shop seem pretty honest and helpful. Many chinese tractor owners probably knew him on the internet. He used to sell Yuchai dozers and was recommended by Northern tools. He had performed some warranty service for Nortrac. He admits that he never done this type of repair before. Probably very few people had.... His quoted hours were based on what Northern told him. He told me the main reason he stop selling the Yuchai dozer was because it has lots of problems. He said he might discount his labor rate if I'm not in a hurry to get it fix and wait until his off-season....
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on May 14, 2008 21:03:46 GMT -5
snip....... What would you do if you were in my situation now Bummer Tom that really puts you in a bind. I'm assuming you do not have the time, tools or desire to tackle this job yourself and are weighing the cost of paying someone to get it fixed. Which from what you are saying, the repair bill will be more than the dozer is worth. Scrap metal is around 50 cents a pound. I think your dozer weighs in around 6600 lbs so that's only 3.3 grand. Then there is the matter of replacing the dozer with another one or a Tractor. I think your going to be needing one or the other or both owning that huge spread of beautiful California Mountain property. Your going to have to make some tough decisions. I took a huge gamble when I purchased my Komatsu Dozer, It would not steer to the right. No one at the auction yard knew anything about what was wrong, as a result I got a huge discount because it was "broken". After taking delivery the next day, I got it steering properly within 20 minutes. Turns out all it was the steering break band needed to be tightened, an external adjustment with a 19 mm socket attached to a 3/8" ratchet wrench. Your dozer has a problem with the steering clutches stuck in the dis-engaged position. It could be as simple as a stuck shaft. A little WD-40 some heat and a hammer, and your good to go. You asked - "What would you do if you were in my situation now"My personal decision would be to haul it back to my place, tear it apart it and fix it myself. If I remember correctly your dozer has only ~ 80 hours on it? Whatever is wrong has got to be simple, the hard part will be taking all the stuff off to get to what the problem is. I strongly encourage you to motivate yourself and fix it with your own bare hands and, well maybe a few tools with the support and encouragement of all of us here on the forum. Here are two alternatives to consider (Esther is going to kill me when she finds out about this) Maybe we can work out a deal and I will buy it? Rob or someone else here may be interested in it as well. I'd love to own a dozer with a TPH, and probably mount my BH on it like Bob Rooks did. OR, ship it to my place prepaid and I'll fix it in on the weekends in my spare time. If it has broken parts you pay for the parts and some pre negotiated price between you and I for labor. I'd love the opportunity to tear it apart, see what's really wrong and fix it right for you. Of course I would take a million pictures and post details of the surgery. Whatever you do, please don't sell it to that repair shop. Of course this is pure speculation on my part - If the guy your working with used to sell and work on these dozer's, he may know what's really wrong. It may be a simple fix and all he wants to do is "flip" your dozer for a fast buck. Larry
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