ZL-20 FEL Valve Comparison

[3RRL]

I was messing around with Loretta's hydraulic system on her 284 Jinma this week. I took the valves off and decided to make a comparison of the stock ZL-20 FEL valve to her new Ranch Hand Supply aftermarket FEL valve.
I have a couple questions that came up after comparing them.

As advertised, Ronald's valve has superior quality and added features over the stock valve. It is much smoother to operate and feather. It has float, power beyond capability and rapid regen. Anyway, I took some photos of the valves side by each to show some details. They both have adjustable pressure relief valves and the linkage is similar, except Ronald's linkage seems to be of better construction.
Ronald's valve is gray on the left and the ZL-20 is black on the right.



I'm not so sure I understand what rapid regen means exactly, but his valve sure is nice. I'm no hydraulic expert, so I don't know what makes those valves tick, other than the noticeable differences must have something to do with it. Maybe somebody can clarify it? You can see in this first picture that the valves look identical except Ronald's new valve is longer on the bottom and has a center plug in the middle of the 4 ports. I wonder if those physical differences are for rapid regen and float?



Ronald’s valve has an alternate plug for power in whereas the ZL does not. (Look above the "P"). The other difference is Ronald's valve has the return to tank on the face where the ZL has an optional return port there, but it is plugged. (Look above the "T"). The ZL uses the left SIDE port for return, whereas Ronald's uses that port for the power beyond.
This is where the comparison gets interesting.

[3RRL]

I tilted the valves to look inside those side ports.
On Ronald’s valve, I know it is used for power beyond when the sleeve is added. It has several passages or channels in it. One that allow pressurized flow through the inside of the sleeve and another around it for return to tank. The power beyond sleeve has “O” rings to separate the high pressure channel from the low pressure return to tank. But looking inside the ZL valve, it has the same identical internal passages as Ronald’s valve. I stuck a scale rule inside each port and felt the return to tank channels on the sides of the ports ... both valves.



So now I’m wondering if the ZL-20 DOES have power beyond capability when the appropriate sleeve is installed? It sure looks like it to me. After all, it does have that alternate port for return to tank on it already. The threads are different than Ronald’s valve so that sleeve doesn’t fit … I tried it. It also looks like the bottom “O” ring needs to be at the very bottom of the PB sleeve. But If I could get the appropriate sleeve, it should work? Anybody know for sure?
Now, with that in mind, how about those other features like float and rapid regen.
Can those be added to this valve then?
Rob-

[tuffytractor]

Although Larry is probably more experienced with this type of thing, I'll put in my two cents worth.

When I replaced my Valve with a Prince valve I got a leak out of the back and they sent over a replacement. When talking with the tech to have the replacement sent, he ran down the list of available options. They were all pretty much plug and play. You just have to know what you wanted to do, he could send along the replacement kit to accomplish it. I would imagine your valve is no different. As long as you could specify what you wanted in the kit, you could find one that would fit and do the job.

I know, I know, I was too helpful. ;D I'll get out of the way and let someone that really knows how to accomplish the task tell you where to go.

Larry....? Someone....?

[3RRL]

Hi Tim and thanks for the feedback.
When you said the rep ran down a list of available options, are you talking about the ZL valve or your Prince valve?
Thanks,
Rob-

[3RRL]

In another thread, Larry thought that plug in the face of the ZL valve could be the power beyond, but I already took it out and checked it. It is definitely an alternate return to tank port like the way Ronald's valve is. It didn't have the other passages it like the SIDE port does. That is why I think that SIDE port could be a power beyond port if there was a sleeve for it.
Rob-

[tuffytractor]

It was for my replacement Prince Valve that had a leak. What is the brand of this valve?

[quikduk]

Interesting thread Rob...and Hi Tim! ;D

I would think that the ZL-20 valve looks like a copy of Ronald's valve...or my Brand Hydraulics valve. I think Ronald's valve is made in Canada FWIW.

What is the likelihood of sourcing a metric PB sleeve from one of the suppliers? They usually are made by the valve mfr. but since the ZL valve is made in China, that is probably not an option for you.

It looks like the ZL valve also doesn't have a deep enough machined seat for a PB sleeve to seat properly, based on the photo comparison. Still, it could work if you had the time.

Here is another $.02. Since you are sort-of handy with machining tools how about machining your own PB sleeve based on Ronald's design?

[3RRL]

Here is another $.02. Since you are sort-of handy with machining tools how about machining your own PB sleeve based on Ronald's design?
The threads on the sleeve would be a small pain, but it is doable. I would have to change a set of gears on my lathe. That's why I wanted to know if one was made for it.
Any Chinese suppliers out there know?

The design of the PB sleeve is pretty basic, like all PB sleeves. It has to separate pressure channel from return channel. You are right about the seat being shallow, but it could be sealed with a face "O"ring or I could deepen the seat in the valve.
My question remains, the additional channels I saw/felt in that port, is that valve indeed set up for power beyond?
Is there a power beyond sleeve made/available for that valve? Ronald, Tommy, Chip anybody know?
BTW, what is the metric thread for that side port? I have not measured it.
Thanks,
Rob-

[3RRL]

tuffytractor said:

It was for my replacement Prince Valve that had a leak. What is the brand of this valve?

This is the stock ZL-20 FEL valve Brand 朱世楼朱世楼.

[quikduk]

OMG, LOL.

I am sure it is metric and it is probably a 1.0-1.25mm pitch due to the diameter (and from what I can see in the pics but better put a thread pitch gauge on it.

You could measure across the outside edges of the taper and you will get close to the dia.

You could always try lightly screwing sim. sized metric bolts. You could also take it to a hyd. shop and have them try a bunch of male DIN fittings in it to see what fits.

[3RRL]

quikduk said:

OMG, LOL.

I am sure it is metric and it is probably a 1.0-1.25mm pitch due to the diameter (and from what I can see in the pics but better put a thread pitch gauge on it.

You could measure across the outside edges of the taper and you will get close to the dia.

You could always try lightly screwing sim. sized metric bolts. You could also take it to a hyd. shop and have them try a bunch of male DIN fittings in it to see what fits.

LOL ... you kill me Ken! I have not measured it yet.
I was hoping one of our dealers or someone would know off hand. Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear about it.
One thing I do know is it is not tapered. It has an "O" ring or plastic washer seal on it. Eyeballing it looks like an M18 x 1.5 thread.
BTW, are you still going to change out your valve Ken?

[GuglioLS]

Very interesting, that Žé¢˜OŽé¢˜O brand valve is a very close copy of Ronald's name brand ? valve. The effort to copy it were as successful as the attempt of area 51 to reverse engineer a captured UFO, close, but no cigar.

Have you contacted Mr. Allan at Žé¢˜OŽé¢˜O to see if you can order a PB sleeve, rapid regen and float upgrade kit? I wish you luck and good fortune, in other words, you are SOL. Maybe use as is and hope for the best?

Larry

P.S. -
Damnit -How come my Chinese did not come out like your Chiese

朱世楼朱世楼

[quikduk]

Rob:

Yes I am still changing mine out. I have to see what else I need for it and after seeing the repositioned valve on Honeybee, I like the appearance. I will need to see if it allows me to climb on the right side though as my 354 appears to have a tighter clearance between the front of the rear fender and the FEL tower mount.

[linus69]

Last summer when asking questions about this retro valve kit, I was told their joystick valve is made in Italy. I was even told the manufacters name at the time, but my middle aged memory can`t recall now, I believe it began with a D, maybe it was De-nol or Denole.

Paul

[quikduk]

Paul:

If it is Italian, then it would be made by Dinoil (or Dinoili ;D ).