Well,Well,Well

[biggkidd]

LD,


I just saw this thread. I've missed so many here. Sorry to hear the well went dry. Is the water table such in your area that shallow wells are the norm? I had never heard of a well so shallow. When people around here have a shallow well is usually a minimum of 10 meters & more like 22.5M. Do you have water yet or has it rained? We are looking into a Rockmaster drill to do a few wells when we move.

www.rockmasterdrills.com/index.html

We know someone who may go half with us and we will both use it.

Good luck with your well.

KIDD

[bracabric]

Hi Kidd, don't you worry I miss threads all the time but I do try to keep up with you and your s at the "property" when I can that is.
Yes almost all the wells in the 5th. region (the region that is straight west of Santiago to the Pacific) are at most 15 metres and hand dug without the aid of a Jackhammer (my new word thanks to Larry G. ), labour is cheap and very available. There are some companies who drill much deeper smaller bore wells with machines but the country way here is to bend (someone else's ) back and not spend hard cash, they think I am Rothschild because I pay around USD$18 for a hard days work? I could pay less! but I won't, human dignity is worth at least that much!
The reason for extending the well and the new pump is that we now are having (officially ) the driest years cycle for 100 years all the wells are dry including mine and the suction pump I inherited went "tits up" at the same time. I thought in light of some posting a year or so ago on an unmentionable other site that I would try a submirsible this time and we shall see what we shall see.
Thanks for taking an interest

Dick

[biggkidd]

LD,

Thanks for letting me off easy. Boy I wish I could dig a well and get good water only 10-15M deep. How do you all line the well? By hand with made on site concrete? I have only seen one hand dug well up close and it was a monster. An older couple I did some work for a while back had dug it in the late 50s. It was 8' across and 50' deep he told me. They had lined it with brick, it was dry stacked I believe. But I am not sure. Him and his wife did it all them selves. He dug and she hauled.

They were an interesting couple did everything them selves until they were in their 70s. They bought 40AC here in chesterfield in the 50s. Cleared the land and built the house with no power tools and no help. They did a septic system the same way far as I know. When I was in the house back in the late 90s they still had candle Scones hanging on all the walls. I hope thats the right word (scones) they were wall mounted candle holders for lighting. They had really done a super job everything was first class far as I could see.

Take it easy
KIDD

[bracabric]

Hi Kidd the word ( you were nearly right ) is sconce(s) ,same on a piano or a candelabra and just to be a show off (I have been a Antiques dealer for 30 odd years )the flattish flange or washer on the top of the sconce is called a bobesh .
Right on to the real stuff, the wells about 4'6" in diameter and when it was first dug, they started a hole and then put a heavy concrete pipe section about 5' deep in the hole and kept digging out underneath it, when it was just below ground level they added a further length and then an other making three in all. the digging then came in a bit and the pipes stayed put and below them it's hard shale and such and unlined, a neighbor did line his well with round stones (a bit fatter in the middle ) that we have a lot of and are called breads locally, and cement of course but rough to allow percolation of water.

Stay lucky

Dick

[bracabric]

Well, I put the new submersible pump in the new deeper Well,




Guess what? now the Well is deeper the new pump doesn't have enough head to pump up to the Tank on the Tower,



So I took the Tower down, which took half an hour although it took five hours to erect,




I then put the Tank by the newly deepened Well'




Where it's nice and cool under the Parron, and connected it and it fills the Tank fine, as we get rain and the level of Water in the Well rises, it will fill even faster. I now need to get a second pump and pressure sensitive valve to supply the House from the Tank, which should cure the hot water problem caused by lack of pressure I hope.
Does anyone know if the second pump is better sited near the Tank or near the House?

Dick

[FlyHiFlyLo]

bracabric said:

Does anyone know if the second pump is better sited near the Tank or near the House?

Dick

Some pumps push and some pumps pull... Find out what you get and place in respect.

[bradblazer]

Lucky Dick,
In general the higher the inlet pressure the better it is for the pump. That means the pump is better off at the tank. Minimum net positive suction head (NPSH) is the specification for required pressure at the pump inlet. NPSH = Psat-Pinlet. Psat is the saturation pressure of the water based on it's temperature.
For example if the inlet water is at 1 atmosphere of pressure (101kPa) and 40C, the saturation pressure for 40C is 7.5kPa so the available NPSH is 101-7.5 = 93.5kPa. The minimum NPSH required for most pumps is much lower than that so it is usually not a real big deal.

On my system, there is a deep well submersible pump in the well while the pressure tank and switch are in the basement about 100 feet from the well. I think the pressure in the house is more stable with the pressure tank close. A pump operating on a pressure switch will work much better with a pressure tank. This is the only brand I think I've seen in use:
www.amtrol.com/wellxtrol.htm
Here is an informative well pump site:
www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com/you-can-install-a-pump-system.htm

How is your submersible pump regulated? Is there a float switch in the storage tank? That style of pump is commonly used here as a sump pump. With a normal well pump and pressure tank you don't need the additional storage tank.

Good luck,
Brad

[GuglioLS]

Golly Brad,

That was some impressive technical mumbo jumbo so as to come to the conclusion "so it is usually not a real big deal." HaHaHa

Dick,

Not sure what is available in your area, if possible I suggest a jet pump with a built in bladder tank so as to keep the pressure between 40-60 psi. Install it as close to your tank as possible.

The cheaper ones Looks like this:



The better ones are self priming, have an internal flow sensor to cut the power and protect the pump if the suction side (your storage tank) runs dry.

Grundfos brand is what I have, they are not cheap but IMHO are the best pump on the market.

Here is one exactly like I have to supply my home, it draws water from an 1800 gallon cistern / storage tank.

Ebay Grundfos Pump

Cistern Tank Install

www.grundfos.com/

www.grundfos.com/web/homecl.nsf -< Chile!!!!

Online PDF manula

Larry

[bracabric]

Thanks for the information folks, and the links;
Brad all I've done so far is to put the pump at the bottom of the shaft where it has a float switch against the water running low in the well. I shall put a ballcock valve (float switch?) in the storage tank to automate the supply side.
Larry, I think I had better take a trip down town and see what can be found before progressing further. Grundfos is a name from the past I am very familiar with, when I was in the domestic heating side of a small oil distributor in the 60's we used to use Grundfos pumps, and very good they were!
Thanks again all,

Dick

[bradblazer]

bracabric said:

Thanks for the information folks, and the links;
Brad all I've done so far is to put the pump at the bottom of the shaft where it has a float switch against the water running low in the well. I shall put a ballcock valve (float switch?) in the storage tank to automate the supply side.

You want a float switch in the tank that controls the power to the well pump. If you just put a float valve in the tank the pump will keep running all the time but it will not actually move any water with the float valve shut. That is not good for the pump long term and it will waste power.

[bracabric]

Brad, Thanks, I've got a float switch for the tank that shuts off the pump's electrical supply and starting from the tank (and moving in the direction of the House), a none return valve,a centrifugal pump, expansion (bladder?) tank electric pressure sensing valve hooked up to the pump to switch it on and off. most of this comes as a designed kit so..........should be ok. I stupidly thought I could cut of the electrical supply to the tank filling pump with a ballcock valve, thanks for putting me right!

Dick

[3RRL]

Lucky Dick,
I wish I could be of some help but my well experience is limited to the one I had installed.
All the drilling and subsequent bladder tanks, pumps and electrical were done by the same outfit. The only thing I contributed was digging trenches for the water lines and also brought up that huge 5,000 gallon water tank. But that same outfit came back and plumbed it into the system as well. My other contribution was to prepare the concrete pad for the tank.
The rest was $$$ ... shees.
Rob-

[bracabric]

3RRL, Don't you worry, I have a good idea of where I'm going and have all the "kit", so shall go to the Farm today and play (Sylvia's away for a week!!).
I'm very good at making Mountains out of molehills !!Keep up the good work at 3 rivers, you inspire us all!!
Dick

[bradblazer]

Dick - Sounds like you have what you need.

Have fun!

[bracabric]

This is the pump,electric pressure valve and bladder tank kit I bought, it's made by an Italian company for a US firm in Wisconsin and exported down here. It cost around USD$160.00 including tax at 19%. It's a half horse power centrifugal pump that has no sucking to do so should be plenty for the job!



I put a non return valve on between the tank and pump,




I then connected up the pump set and bolted it to a concrete block for stability,



What a difference in pressure, it comes on at about 40psi and cuts out at about 52psi, when I opened the taps above the bath to let compressed air out, I had forgotten that the water system had not been operational for some months and it's been quite hot! well! all sorts of stuff blew out the tap and I was glad I had opened the bath tap and not one over a sink! The whole things much,much better!
Thanks all for your help and support,

Dick