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Post by baknblack on May 23, 2008 21:29:31 GMT -5
I've developed a problem and was wondering if any of you mechanical gurus might lend an opinion.
After some rather rough pushing with the tractor I could hear a popping sound while backing up. I raised the front wheels off the ground and had someone hold one wheel while i spun the other back wards. The pop was coming from the front end and vibrating back Through the drive shaft.
I can't tell squat from the diagrams but, it looks to me like the drive shaft goes right into the front differential.
The pop occurs every 360 degree rotation so i am thinking maybe a tooth broken off a gear in the front differential.
It almost sounds like a universal joint problem but, I don't think the thing has any U joints.
I hope if i baby it that i can make it Through till winter cause it's looking like I'm going to have to pull the axles and differential to find the problem.
All opinions welcome.
Thank, Dwayne.
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Post by quicksandfarmer on May 23, 2008 22:38:52 GMT -5
Is the pop every 360 degrees rotation of the driveshaft, or the front wheel?
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Post by baknblack on May 24, 2008 5:48:25 GMT -5
Is the pop every 360 degrees rotation of the driveshaft, or the front wheel? The whole drive line rotates when you spin the wheel. The 4WD on this tractor disengages at the transmission. |
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Post by affordable on May 24, 2008 6:19:41 GMT -5
If you find the problem is in the 4 x 4 final drive,we sell a complete replacement that will be cheaper than buying the gears,bearings,ect.and you just have to bolt the axle housing on We also keep complete front drive assemblies where the front wheel bolts onto,it makes it easier for the not so mechanical customers. Tommy Affordable Tractor Sales www.affordabletractorsalesco.com |
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Post by quicksandfarmer on May 24, 2008 22:28:46 GMT -5
The whole drive line rotates when you spin the wheel. The 4WD on this tractor disengages at the transmission. Right, but the driveshaft, the differential, the front half-shafts, and the wheels are all rotating at different rates. When the driveshaft rotates once, the ring gear in the differential rotates one time the differential ratio. The front half-shaft rotates at twice the rate of the ring gear, and the wheel rotates at the ratio of the final drive times the half-shaft. You wrote, "the pop occurs every 360 degree rotation," and my question is, Rotation of what? The pieces all rotate at different rates, so you can narrow down where the problem is by observing what is rotating at the same rate as the pop. If you are getting one pop per revolution of the driveshaft, there are no pieces in the differential that rotate at driveshaft speed other than the input shaft. Your problem is in the driveshaft somewhere. If you are getting one pop per revolution of the wheel, the problem is in the final drive. If you are getting one pop per revolution of the half-shaft, the only pieces of the differential that rotate at that speed are the planetary gears. In that case, the first thing I would do is lift the other wheel and see if you still get the pop rotating the other wheel. If both wheels cause a pop, the problem is the planetary gears. If the pop is only on one side, the problem is outside of the differential in the drive mechanism for that wheel. |
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Post by baknblack on May 24, 2008 22:44:06 GMT -5
The sound stays the same no matter which tire I rotate backwards but, the other wheel has to be held still so the drive shaft will turn. Once the drive shaft is rotating then the pop.
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Post by baknblack on May 24, 2008 22:45:50 GMT -5
We also keep complete front drive assemblies where the front wheel bolts onto,it makes it easier for the not so mechanical customers. My tractor is a Kama TS354C Tommy. You don't stock parts for it do you? |
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Post by affordable on May 25, 2008 18:47:55 GMT -5
Sorry we don't but maybe Chip has the factory building some for him,they are easy to install
Tommy
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3RRL
Administrator 
Huge Kama
Posts: 2,027 
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Post by 3RRL on May 26, 2008 20:19:46 GMT -5
Dwayne, My guess is that one (or more) of the teeth on the small miter or bevel gears in the front drive has broken. Those small gears are the weakest link in the front drive power train. My guess it will be the one attached to the front drive shaft which is at the very top of the front drive unit where the axle engages it. To avoid that tooth (and others) from getting chewed up to dust, I would not try limping along with it until winter...especially not using 4w drive. I guess you could, but then you could hurt something else. I replaced my own gears and bearings and whatever after determining which needed to be replaced. It can be done of course, but it's a bit of work though. Once disassembled and in there working on it, it's not too bad. Sounds like Tommy's suggestion might be a good alternative to save labor. But once you're in there, it might just be one gear to replace (or one set). Here's a link to my thread about the repair on my Kama 554. Might help you to see what's in there and what you're up against. Kama554 Front Drive RepairRob- |
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Post by baknblack on May 27, 2008 7:42:59 GMT -5
Thanks Rob, that's kind of what I thought also. Chip says the whole front end has to be removed to get the drive shaft out and to get a look at where we think the problem is.
I got most of my tobacco set this weekend and most of my hay mowed last week. I've got about 1/2 an acre of tobacco left to set and I got a neighbor to rake and bale the hay for 1/2. I hated to lose the hay but, I didn't want to run the tractor anymore than I had to.
We plan to set the last 1/2 acre next Saturday. After that I really don't need the tractor for anything till fall so, the front end is coming out after that. I will update the thread when I find the problem. I think it will hold together to finish the tobacco. It sounds fine in 2WD rolling forward.
I made a stupid decision using the tractor for a bull dozer right before hay and tobacco season. We were putting up some fence last week and in the process of clearing the fence row. I pushed the little tractor beyond what it was made for.
This is the first major problem I've had in 300 hours and it was my fault. If I hadn't been too lazy to run to the house and put the box blade on this would of never happened.
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quikduk
CTW Life Member
Dog House
Posts: 552
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Post by quikduk on May 27, 2008 10:22:52 GMT -5
Don't feel bad Dwayne. I used my 354 Jinma to bulldoze with the FEL (NOT recommended) and tweaked it slightly, as well as bending the bucket cutting edge slightly. I then buldozed with the stock box blade and twisted that up quite a bit. That too is fixed with the help of Rob and a LOT of 1/2" steel plate. I guess the rule is: If you need to bulldoze, get a dozer.  I use my tractor for whatever I need so unless I have to bulldoze a lot of dirt, I'll make it work with what I have. Ken |
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3RRL
Administrator
Huge Kama
Posts: 2,027
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Post by 3RRL on May 27, 2008 21:12:39 GMT -5
I guess I would be the last guy you want to ask about doing the "right thing" with the tractor. Bending and breaking stuff on my tractor is second nature with me.  After all, without my repair threads, most of these boards wouldn't have any subjects. ;D |
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Post by baknblack on May 28, 2008 7:01:34 GMT -5
I guess I would be the last guy you want to ask about doing the "right thing" with the tractor. Bending and breaking stuff on my tractor is second nature with me. After all, without my repair threads, most of these boards wouldn't have any subjects. ;D I was just looking over your front tear down thread. You mentioned you found out later you could get the front drive-shaft out by removing the entire axle. How would one go about that? Would the front end have to slide forward to get the shaft out of the differential? |
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Post by Artrac on May 28, 2008 7:09:02 GMT -5
You will need to remove the front axle to pull the differential (pumpkin). it is only 4 bolts and two hydraulic lines. While you have it down, be sure to check the mounting bolts on the steering cylinder (different on KM and new TS series) we have had several pull loose. You can pull the axle shafts out by removing the steering knuckles. I"m not sure what parts actually turn at the same speed as the wheel. there is a gear reduction that takes place in the final drives (out by the wheels) and then of course the differential. so the differential is turning several times for one turn of the wheel... i think....
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Post by baknblack on May 28, 2008 7:26:10 GMT -5
You will need to remove the front axle to pull the differential (pumpkin). it is only 4 bolts and two hydraulic lines. While you have it down, be sure to check the mounting bolts on the steering cylinder (different on KM and new TS series) we have had several pull loose. You can pull the axle shafts out by removing the steering knuckles. I"m not sure what parts actually turn at the same speed as the wheel. there is a gear reduction that takes place in the final drives (out by the wheels) and then of course the differential. so the differential is turning several times for one turn of the wheel... i think.... Thanks Chip, The noise was at every full rotation of the drive shaft. Maybe I wasn't clear on that.That's what lead me to think it was in the differential. The drive shaft won't spin unless a helper holds the other wheel still so, i get no noise from the right or left side when I spin a wheel without holding the other still. I only get noise when i force the drive shaft to rotate. Based on that do you still think the differential is the place to look? It's not real easy to tell because when it pops from the damage the whole drive shaft resonates but, best as i can tell it's originating from the front. |
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After all, without my repair threads, most of these boards wouldn't have any subjects. ;D