KAMA 354C and Z04D loader

[scgrasell]

I have just completed putting my tractor together. The normal loose bolts etc. I upgraded the loader from the ZL-30 loader to the TZ04D. I'm guessing that I should have update the pump along with the loader. The tractor came with a 10ml/rev pump. I have seen a few threads inwhich the pumps have been replaced for higher volume. Right now I have timed my loader at 32-34 seconds to get from ground level to full extention. I think it is a bit slow. Has anyone experienced a similar slow loader and has a fix in mind?

Thanks

[scgrasell]

One more question: if my math is correct, a 10ml/rev pump at 500 rev. per min should be producing 1.3 gallons per min. the largest pump I have seen online is a CBN-E314 at 14ml/rev pump at 500 rev. whixh should yeild 1.85 gallons per minutes. Is this enough flow?

[GuglioLS]

Hi Scgrasell and welcome to CTW.

By special request, Tommy at Affordable Tractor Sales stocks a CBN E-320 pump (20 ml/rev) he found them in China and got about 20 or so of them. They are not listed online and I'm not sure how many he has left, but if it will fit your tractor, I highly recommend upgrading to that pump. After I installed that 320 pump my loader now only takes 5 seconds from ground level to full height. My cylinders are only 1.75" ID. How large is the bore on your TZ04D lift cylinders? I get about 8 GPM at 2000 RPM with the 320 pump.

Here is more info - CLICK HERE

Rob upgraded his 554 Kama with the same pump - here is his thread CLICK HERE

Hope some of this helps, 500 RPM is pretty slow to be using hydraulics, so maybe bump it up to 1500 to 1800 RPM's or more to get it going a little faster. Also it was discovered by our member and dear friend Matthew (Flick) in Tasmania Australia that these gear driven pumps run at 7/8ths the engine RPM.


Larry

[baknblack]

Jun 24, 2008 22:11:57 GMT -5 scgrasell said:

One more question: if my math is correct, a 10ml/rev pump at 500 rev. per min should be producing 1.3 gallons per min. the largest pump I have seen online is a CBN-E314 at 14ml/rev pump at 500 rev. whixh should yeild 1.85 gallons per minutes. Is this enough flow?

I've got a Koyker loader with 2 inch cylinders and a 314 pump. It's not bad at all. I forget the model # but, it's about the biggest loader my 354 can handle.

I'ts hard to find a 316 or a 320 with the right shaft but, I think the ends may interchange.

Chip keeps the 314's in stock for the kama as it uses the rear(pto) pump.

[scgrasell]

I could noy find any information on the stroke of my cylinders, the main cylinder housing must be about 3 inches in dia. and the strock is somewhere around 18 inches. I will have to measure the rod shaft tomorrow when I make it out to the property.

[baknblack]

Jun 25, 2008 11:03:50 GMT -5 scgrasell said:

I could noy find any information on the stroke of my cylinders, the main cylinder housing must be about 3 inches in dia. and the strock is somewhere around 18 inches. I will have to measure the rod shaft tomorrow when I make it out to the property.

Those are some big cylinders!!!! I know the 316 can be had with the correct slotted coupler.
This page shows a 320 with the correct shaft I think. The 306 is the correct shaft for sure.
www.cnautoparts.com/A06-Accessories/Liquid%20Gear%20Pump/GP-2.htm

[baknblack]

This is a 314L(wrong shaft)

www.circlegtractorparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=204&products_id=53

[scgrasell]

Ordered a CBN-E320 from Affordable Tractors this morning. They said it was the last one the had for my application. I hope it works. I'll sure find out on tuesday.

[tuffytractor]

scgrasell,

I too have the TZO4D, with its over-sized 3" cylinders, although mine came with the 314 gear pump installed, it still took 18 seconds from bottom to top. I don't know whether you have any information about it, but here are two Loader Spec Sheets that I have found.



I did several things to get the time down to a reasonable 7 seconds (or so). I replaced the FEL Valve, I only gained 4 seconds with that effort, but I really liked the remodel.
chinesetractor.proboards66.com/index.cgi?board=fel&action=display&thread=183
I also took out the paper filter in the tank and cut off the restrictive ports that it was attached to. Then I changed over to the 320 gear pump. That is when it really made the difference.

I'm sure the pump change will also make all the difference to you. 20ml/rev means at 2000 rpm you should be pumping about 10.5 gallons per minute through your system. (I just noticed that Larry earlier in the thread says he only gets 8 gal per minute, so my math must be haywire?) Larry offered this Hydraulic Calculator in other threads, you might find it handy.
www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulic.htm
Not to forget that other limiting factors may be any quick (dis)connects in line and what flow they are rated at.

[scgrasell]

here is the formula I used.

(XX)milliteres/rev. X .00026417205235 =(YY)gallons/rev.

(YY) gallons/rev. X (2000 RPM X 7/8) = (ZZ) gallons/min.

I included the factor inwhich was in a preveouse thread.

20 x .00026417205235 = .00528344 x 1750 = 9.25 gal/min

see "OnlineConversion.com" for lots of usefull conversions

[affordable]

I found 6- more of the E320 pumps, I'm trying to get some more and will keep you guys posted,I brought in 25 and these are the last 6.

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales Co.
www.affordabletractorsalesco.com

[tuffytractor]

The math I used wasn't quite so elegant, but here is how I reached my conclusion. Maybe someone can point out what my mistake is.

20 milliliter = 0.005 283 441 047 2 gallon [US, liquid] per revolution

X 2000 Revolutions Per Minute on the tachometer

=40 000 milliliter = 10.566 882 094 gallon [US, liquid]

Perhaps its not taking into account the restriction of the Hydraulic Hose or the QD's?

[scgrasell]

They are the same without the correction factor.

I got 10.57 gallons

[3RRL]

Hi scgrassel and welcome to the board.
I see the guys have already introduced you to the CBN320 and you already ordered one. Mine made a big difference too, on my Kama 554 with a Koyker 195 FEL.
About the calculations, wasn't there some factor Brad pointed out that the pumps are geared so they actually 7/8 revolution every engine rpm or something like that? Perhaps that's why Larry's calculation differs from yours? Maybe someone can find that thread?
Rob-

[Artrac]

We equipped several of our TS series tractors with 316 pumps and the flow was more than the return port could handle. caused the 3 point lift arms to drift up on about half to 2 thirds of the tractors, I think a 320 would make this problem worse. a 314 pump will be a 40 percent increase in flow over the 310, a 316 would be 60 percent and the 320 would double the flow (not considering the restiction of the hydraulic line ID. Did they go back to a rear mounted pump on the TS tractor?