If it ain't broke don't fix it!

[captinjack]

Kama 554

Had a bad day on Thursday. Since I had a free morning and most of my tractor work was done for awhile, I decided to replace the main hydraulic pump with a new high capacity 320 pump. The FEL has been anemic for a while, but is usable. Sometimes it won't lift the front of the tractor.

The change out was pretty straight forward excepting that I must have over pressurized the return line to the pump with compressed air (to fill the return line with fluid) as the entire contents of the hydraulic sump under the seat wound up in the motor oil in about 20 seconds of run time. I pulled the dip-stick out and oil shot out! Oil even came out the filler port at the valve cover elevation. What a mess!

I guess I blew the seal out on the new pump and will have to get some parts to fix. As it is now, I can't even move the tractor.

I need help on what parts I need and some instruction if I need to remove the entire double pump where it connects to the engine. Maybe I could put the old pump back on, but I want to do a first class repair and get my hydraulic power back.

As if this wasn't enough.......I locked the keys in my Yukon and I'm at camp way back in the boonies. Dang, when it rains it pours.

I really feel like poop as I was expecting that this pump replacement was going to improve my FEL performance and now I don't even have a tractor that I can move.

I drained the oil and disconnected the battery and that is where its at. I was so pissed that I didn't take anymore time to do any troubleshooting as I was overdue at home.

I won't be able to go to camp to fix this for another copula weeks as it's off to Vegas for a week with my true love for our anniversary, but I'm taking the computer and will check in daily.

Rob
I too wonder how they put these tractors together. The hydraulic pump exit bolts would not allow use of a box end wrench nor a socket and the other obstructions precluded an open end wrench. I wound up grinding down the box end thin enough to fit the bolt head.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Rob, do you think this is what's going on with my deal?

[3RRL]

Jack, oh Man I feel for you.
I know what a pain it is just to do all that maintenance and repair crap at camp ... it's not easy at all.
Then to add insult to injury locking your keys in must have been a sweet feeling. I might have taken my shotgun and blown the window out just to feel better. ;D

About your hydraulic pump:
Sounds like you did exactly what you thought. Now, when I changed mine out I didn't take the motor mount off the engine block. Only the pump off that dual pump mount that attaches to the motor. I think you'll have to take both pumps off and that mount. There should be a seal where it is driven by the engine. I think you blew that seal. Call Chip and ask him for that part and any other advice, since I've never had to change that. (Crossing my fingers, arms, eyes and legs).
I think your new 320 pump is still Ok. Remember that it works under 10 times as much pressure as you put in there with air. So I think it's fine. When you get with Chip and start doing the repair, TAKE PICTURES for me and the others. And document what you are doing.

Good luck Jack and happy anniversary! Hope you win some money in Vegas. If you have a free day, stop by my place. I'm not that far from Vegas. BTW, I told you some of those bolts were hard to get to.

[3RRL]

Sept 19, 2008 16:24:13 GMT -5 FlyHiFlyLo said:

Rob, do you think this is what's going on with my deal?

Yes, a definite possibility now that I think of it and from you told me before.

[GuglioLS]

Captin,

Bummer man - sorry about the hassles.

You may not need any parts at all. Here are a couple of things to consider -

Is / was the new 320 pump "clocked" correctly for the rotational direction of your engine? The reason I ask is because I have messed around with quite a few of these pumps in and out of my engine. I once clocked the pump wrong and the front seal blew instantly upon starting the engine and trying to lift the FEL (I could "feel" it blow as the FEL stopped responding immediately) it pumped hydraulic fluid into my engine as well. The Seal on the shaft of the pump mostly seals the suction side, with some small exposure to the side of the pump that is starting to build pressure, so it does not take much pressure to blow out that seal. I do believe your attempt to pressurize the fluid through the system on the suction side did cause that seal to blow out, -usually it's not damaged, just a small lip of the seal has burped out past the pump shaft. Simply remove the pump, then remove the face plate of the pump and simply push the rubber seal back into position, I did that at least three times before I figured out the internals of my pump were "clocked" incorrectly.

Make sure the new 320 pump is "clocked" Exactly like the pump you pulled out to replace it with. (must take the old pump apart) be very conscientious of exactly how it's put together. especially the orientation of the "W" rings on the end plates.

Your FEL not lifting the front of the tractor off the ground -
That may be a simple pressure relief adjustment on the FEL valve, the upgraded 320 pump will not produce any more pressure, only more GPM flow. So it may not solve that problem at all.

Like you said if it ain't broke don't fix it (Too late for that now) I feel confident you will get it fixed up on your next visit. Drop 20 in the mega bucks for me. Good luck.

Are you going to any of the shows? I highly recommend Blue Man Group, Penn & Teller, and or any of the Dinner / Magic shows.


Larry

[captinjack]

Thanks for the help folks.

There is a rotation arrow on the new 320 pump, but not the old one.

By "clocked" do you mean the direction of rotation?

The lack of power came about shortly after using the FEL to move 22 tons of limestone so I will investigate the pressure relief. Never fooled with the relief. I have a pressure gauge, but will be lucky to have the correct connections. I good on electrical stuff, but a wee bit ignorant when it come to hydraulics.

I hope Chip comes on line with a response. I just arrived in Vegas and will have some time on my hands as I'm not a gambler. My true love is though and she just left the room "to look the place (Paris) over and will be right back within a half hour. Yeah....right.......and I'm from the govt. and I'm here to help you. This may be good for some blackmail and bonus points.

Rob
I got over 200 pictures of deer in the last 2 weeks in my food plot just in front of the cabin. Archery opens Oct. 18th and It looks like I should get a crack at one as they are coming in morning noon and night! Hope all is well with the new hacienda. What is the verdict on the solar power system now that you are now in residence? Any adjustments or problems?

[Artrac]

Missed this. Is it still an issue? While i've never had a 320 pump, I think the end seals and shaft seal are the same so a standard kit may work. Clocking is making sure the innards are oriented correctly so the flow is the way it needs to go. you can tell by the big hole on the suction port and rotation direction same as pump replaced. Largest pump we stock is 316.

[captinjack]

Thanks for the "clocking" description.

Affordable is sending me a shaft seal and gasket.

I'll be visiting the tractor on Saturday and will be able to check it out. I'll post to the board afterwards. I'm beginning to feel a bit better about getting this fixed correctly. It sure is a bad feeling when your tractor isn't operational.

This tractor forum has been sooooooo much help. Thanks again.

[captinjack]

Well I got to the tractor yesterday and removed the new 320 hydraulic pump and compared it to the old pump and found that the splined drive shaft was not on the same side.

I disassembled the end plate and reversed the gears and now it was the same as the original. After installation, I fired up the tractor and the same thing happened again; the hydraulic fluid pumped into the engine and spurted out the filler tube at the valve cover! Dang! After removal, the drive shaft seal was again blown out.

I then put the old pump back in and after changing the fluids again, it worked just fine with the exception that the FEL was just as weak as ever.

Thanks to help from Gugliol? I adjusted the pressure relief and now it's as strong as ever. Boy, it sure is good to have a properly working tractor again. Thanks for all the help fellows.

Now I have to figure out what to do with the new 320 pump that is of no good to me as it stands now.

I have pictures, but I've got a new computer and I'm pressed for time. Will post pictures later when I get it set up right.

On another subject, I coincidentally was traveling back home from a trip to Mobile, AL and had stopped for the night in Johnson City, TN home of Carter & Carter Machinery who has been supplying us with Top N Tilts. I stopped by in the morning and met the folks and bought a new top cylinder as I damaged my old one due to a stupid mistake on my part. I installed the top cylinder on the bottom hole of the tractor mount which meant that when I lifted the 3 point hitch all the way up.......the hose connection hit the mount and broke the cylinder fitting almost off.

The Carter folks were a joy to do business with and will attempt to repair my damaged cylinder. It's nice to see "old fashioned" customer service and meet people who know what they are doing.

[3RRL]

Hi Jack,
I see you made it home Vegas in one piece. What a town that is!
Sorry to hear your 320 pump didn't work for you. I wonder why? Mine bolted on directly and works great. No more psi than the old pump (a 312) but a lot more flow so my hydraulics are a lot faster now. If I remember correctly both yours and Brad's 554's came with larger stock pumps than mine anyway. So for me it was a good addition ... especially since it worked. ;D

I also know what you mean about the top link cylinder. I've don the same thing. As a matter of fact, once I got the whole cylinder stuck inside the top link connection on the tractor when I had it in the lower hole and lifted the 3pt all the way up. It cracked the tractor connection but I fixed it properly. I ended up cutting off the connecting end on the cylinder and adding a 1-1/2" extension, welding the cylinder to it. That put the cylinder body and rear hose connection out of harms way. Now I can use it in either top or bottom hole.
Rob-

[GuglioLS]

Bummer man, at least you made it out of Vegas alive. I still think the pump innards are configured incorrectly, that's why the seal keeps blowing. How in the hell did it bolt up when the shaft was on the wrong side? I guess I don't understand that part. Maybe it was correct to begin with and the only reason the seal blew was compressed air going into the suction side. Rob, myself and quite a few others were able to use the 320 without reconfiguring it so it should have been good to go right out of the box. If you want pics of how it should be configured let me know. Perhaps that would help get it going? Then you can use it to enjoy the benefits of increased flow rate.

Larry