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Post by shotley on Dec 10, 2008 19:13:33 GMT -5
My Nortrac 204 became hard to start this winter. It is in a super insulated shop where the temp. is around 35 degrees. I have a power supply which can be varied and it has a current readout. I put in on all three glow plugs one at a time and measured the current. Number one had about 6 amps. Number 2 had zero and number 3 had the full 10 amps. I ordered new ones. I once read that a high setting battery charger is bad for the plugs. This makes sense as power goes up with the voltage squared. I had a bad battery last year and put the charger to it several times. I believe this may have affected the plugs. I plan to measure the new plugs one at a time before putting the strap back in place and will report the findings. The voltage was 12 volts.
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Post by Rich Waugh on Dec 10, 2008 23:20:32 GMT -5
How does the battery charger affect the glow plugs? With the ignition off, the plugs should be isolated from the battery, right? Or were you using the charger to boost the battery while starting? I can see how that might definitely have an effect on the plugs, since the charger has to be putting out more voltage than the battery in order to charge it at all.
Living in the tropics, glow plugs aren't a real concern to me, of course, but I want to learn in case I find myself in the unfortunate position of living in a cold place someday. Not likely, since I hate cold and those who know me say that any afterlife I might have will almost certainly be spent in a very warm place...(grin)
If you had to jump start the tractor with a booster/charger much it might be worth putting a current limiting resistor (or even a light bulb) in series with the glow plug circuit to avoid the over-voltage damage to them. With a simple DPDT switch you could switch it in and out as needed. I think this should work, but like I said I know little about glow plugs.
Rich - living with his glow plugs disconnected and happy about it.
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Post by shotley on Dec 11, 2008 22:47:40 GMT -5
I had a bad battery and used the charger to start the tractor a few times. I have worked in electronics and was aware of damage to other parts and did not use the highest 200 AMP booster but did use the 40 AMP position. I believe this was enough to do damage. Only when you use it to start the tractor is the problem. With the key off and charging the battery they glow plug is not connected. I got them this evening and will install them tomorrow. I will measure the current flow on each one to see just what they draw and post it.
On another subject someone claimed that air filters were excessively expensive. I bought two from Northern equipment for my Nortrac for $11. each. The glow plugs were $10. and change. each.
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Post by shotley on Dec 12, 2008 22:05:57 GMT -5
Put the new glow plugs in and tested them at 13 Volts. They all drew 7 amps. The old ones drew 10 amps. The tractor started up and ran smooth right away. I had heated up the shop with the wood stove so it was close to 60 in the room. Maybe they will last longer with the 7 amp draw but will the tractor start when cold? Living in Northern MN. I will find out. We are scheduled for a foot of snow over the weekend so I will have oportunity to test it.
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Post by linus69 on Dec 13, 2008 7:45:34 GMT -5
I not positive but when you try it when the temps are in the single digits you might find the glow plugs draw a little more, and as they start to deteriorate with use and age they will draw more current.
My 284 starts even on the coldest days here in NE PA, it usually takes a good 30 secs then she goes. I have never used ether to start the old girl, my buddy the excavator who has over a million in equipment that he maintains, says ether is like crack to a diesel.
Once you start using it, you start a lifetime commitment, he`s never steered me wrong before so I avoid the ether.
I also done the Ford ignition switch mod. that if I remember it right lets the glow plugs continue to draw current while the starter spins. I then give it a good 10 minute warm up period and I get to work.
Good luck with the snow storm.
Paul
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Post by shotley on Dec 13, 2008 16:18:12 GMT -5
My super insulated shop keeps snow melted on the floor all they way into late January without any heat. I do have a wood furnace if I need to do some work. If the tractor will start at 32 degrees I will be happy. If it gets below that it is usually below zero outside. I like to wait until it is above zero to ride a tractor outside anyway. I am retired and don't have to get out to go to work so the driveway can wait for a little warmup. Thanks for the comments. I don't pretend to be a mechanic so any bit of wisdom is welcome.
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Post by bob16925 on Dec 13, 2008 21:22:03 GMT -5
HI! I have a nortrac 254.. my glow plugs failed to start my 254 on the first cold day i checked and they weren't drawing any amps. I thought no way all three bad checked them across the battery and sure enough they were dead. northern sent me three new ones and an extra start switch for some reason and they appear to work fine now starts right up.. my nagging thought like yours is what made them go out over the summer? I am thinking something in the altenator but I haven't had time to check..
bob
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Post by shotley on Dec 15, 2008 9:59:10 GMT -5
I have heard of many switch failures on the tractors. I do have a background in electronics. I suspect that the heavy current going to the glow plugs is part of the switch problem. I wired a relay directley from the starter with much heavier wire. I can no longer read the current but I have other meters to measure it. Just a hunch but I believe it will make the switch last longer. The glow plug wire looks very small for the job.
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Post by studor on Dec 15, 2008 11:27:21 GMT -5
I rewired my glow plugs as per Eriks "due diligence" thread in this forum and have experienced much better performance from them -- I still find the best remedy for cold weather starting is a block heater -- plug it in when I get to the farm, make a pot of coffee, have one, start tractor -so far works "even on the coldest darkest days".
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3RRL
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Huge Kama
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Post by 3RRL on Dec 15, 2008 11:47:57 GMT -5
I have heard of many switch failures on the tractors. I do have a background in electronics. I suspect that the heavy current going to the glow plugs is part of the switch problem. I wired a relay directley from the starter with much heavier wire. I can no longer read the current but I have other meters to measure it. Just a hunch but I believe it will make the switch last longer. The glow plug wire looks very small for the job. I too wired a relay from the glow plugs to the switch with a separate fuse in between. When we received Loretta's tractor, there was no wire going to the buss bar and also no slot in the fuse box for a glow plug fuse. Now there is a separate heavy wire going to them. She's had the tractor for 10 months now and she needs to use the glow plugs to start in below freezing temps. No problem using 20 to 25 seconds pre heat since the wire addition. Rob- |
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Post by shotley on Dec 15, 2008 20:16:17 GMT -5
I did plow snow today. Lots of it! It was 12 below zero outside and 27 inside the well insulated building. I gave the glow plugs 25 seconds and it started right up and smoothed out quickly. You do need to dress warmly when riding a tractor at 12 below! I blocked off all of the radiator except the top 3" and it stayed around 140 degrees when working.
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Dec 15, 2008 22:08:20 GMT -5
12 below - Burr. I think I would wait till spring when it warms up to plow  . Hey Shotley, man that's cold. Dressing up warm to plow in those sub zero temps is not joke. Having done it a few times myself makes me appreciate what your going through. It must have been pretty light powder at those temps, unless of course it snowed when it was warmer. Your not caught up in any of those ice storms and power outages in the north east are you? Covering up the radiator is a good idea. I'll have to try that next time. Good thing you got those glow plugs replaced, and just in the nick of time too. I don't think having the charger hooked up while trying to start the tractor would have any damaging affect on the glow plugs. There is just not enough voltage to run damaging power through them to burn them out. Depending on your battery, it can supply 400 to 1000 amps short circuit, the glow plugs being resistors will draw what they draw at 12-14 volts even if there were a million amps available. So having a charger with even 14 - 15 volts and a billion amps on it should not take out the glow plugs. 12 volts @ 10 amps = 120 watts per glow plug, 14 volts@ 10 amps = 140 watts per plug. Not enough difference to burn them out (IMHO) But hey, what do I know. Larry |
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Post by shotley on Dec 16, 2008 10:32:09 GMT -5
Larry you forgot that the current will go up also when the voltage goes up. The easy formula for power is Voltage squared over resistance. If we assume the glow plug has one ohm of resistance 12 volts squared results in 144 watts 14 volts would be 196 watts. It you measure the current and multiply times the voltage the answer will be the same. If you do it this way you don't have to use a current meter which requires breaking a circuit.
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Post by stumppuller on Dec 19, 2008 20:28:20 GMT -5
OK now that it is getting colder here in Gilroy, CA, the 284 is getting harder to start. What is the startup procedure for firing up the glow plugs? Is it automatic with the ignition switch?
Bruce
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Post by stumppuller on Dec 19, 2008 20:28:49 GMT -5
OK now that it is getting colder here in Gilroy, CA, the 284 is getting harder to start. What is the startup procedure for firing up the glow plugs? Is it automatic with the ignition switch?
Bruce
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. Hey Shotley, man that's cold. Dressing up warm to plow in those sub zero temps is not joke. Having done it a few times myself makes me appreciate what your going through. It must have been pretty light powder at those temps, unless of course it snowed when it was warmer. Your not caught up in any of those ice storms and power outages in the north east are you? Covering up the radiator is a good idea. I'll have to try that next time.