Glow plugs

[3RRL]

Dec 19, 2008 20:28:49 GMT -5 stumppuller said:

OK now that it is getting colder here in Gilroy, CA, the 284 is getting harder to start. What is the startup procedure for firing up the glow plugs? Is it automatic with the ignition switch?

Bruce

Hi Bruce,
I don't know how the other guys do it, but here's what I do with Loretta's 284.
First, I always reduce the throttle to about 800-900rpm before I shut it down. That's about where I like it to run at start up.
To activate the glow plugs, turn the key to the "pre-heat" position which is just before the "start" or cranking position.
You should see a draw down on your amp meter.
Hold in that position between 20-30 seconds, depending how cold it is and then turn the key all the way to the "start" position. If it is really cold, I activate the decompression lever for a few seconds to let the engine turn over without any load. Then I release the decompression lever all the while keeping the key in the "start" position. It may take a bit longer for it to fire up, so keep it in the start position until it catches. Not too long of course, but long enough to give it a fair chance to catch. If it doesn't start, wait several minutes before trying again ... same procedure.
So far, this has worked for a first try start every time with Loretta's 284. When it's below freezing, I hold the glow plugs at least 30 seconds to be sure. Once it starts, you can bring the rpm up to 1200 or more to let it warm up before driving it.
Rob-

[GuglioLS]

Bruce,

Are your glow plugs hooked up? - Many of them are not connected from the factory. I'm pretty sure Loretta's 284 came that way (not hooked up). When you turn the key to the position Rob describes above, watch your ammeter, it should pretty much peg to -30 amps, then slowly reduce to -25 - 20 amps as they warm up, that is if they are connected and operating.

Let up know how it glows

Larry

[stumppuller]

These Jinma configurations really amaze me. My 284 was made in March of 2008, yet it has no ammeter! Guess I'll add one, but in the meantime I'll measure the resistance of each plug & check for voltage at the feed wire.

I still don't understand the switch action. First position activates a 3 second hum from under the dash & 4 seconds later the fuel tank light goes out. Turn it further and the starter engages; release the key & a red indicator light remains on in the dash. ( I was told that this indicated that the charging system was active)
At what stage during this sequence are the glow plugs charged?

[3RRL]

Dec 20, 2008 1:56:31 GMT -5 stumppuller said:

These Jinma configurations really amaze me. My 284 was made in March of 2008, yet it has no ammeter! Guess I'll add one, but in the meantime I'll measure the resistance of each plug & check for voltage at the feed wire.

I still don't understand the switch action. First position activates a 3 second hum from under the dash & 4 seconds later the fuel tank light goes out. Turn it further and the starter engages; release the key & a red indicator light remains on in the dash. ( I was told that this indicated that the charging system was active)
At what stage during this sequence are the glow plugs charged?

Hmmm, that's news to me.
That doesn't sound like we have the same switch then?
What about the other 200 series Jinma owners? What say you?

[quicksandfarmer]

Here's my cold-weather starting program:
1. Spin the starter with the compression released until the oil pressure comes up.
2. Push in the fuel cutoff and spin the starter a little more with the compression released to get some fuel into the pump and cylinders. (I don't know if this actually does anything, but ignorance and superstition have served me well so far and I'm not messing with a good thing.)
3. Apply the glow plugs until the ammeter drops to about 15 amps. Apply some more if I think I need to.
4. Crank the engine.
5. Repeat 3 and 4 as needed.

With my 354 I find that if it doesn't start within a second or so of spinning the starter more spinning isn't going to help. What is needed is more glow plugs. I suspect that spinning the engine actually cools the cylinders when they're not firing.

My switch won't let me do the starter and the glow plugs at the same time, but once I get one cylinder firing I lay off the starter and apply the glow plugs. Usually the one cylinder will keep the engine going long enough for another one to kick in. I keep applying the glow plugs until the engine is running smoothly with no white smoke, usually about 20 seconds.

I might get one day a year with temps in the single digits or below. I've found a quick shot of starting fluid has the engine jumping to life when it's that cold. But that's a whole 'nother debate...

[GuglioLS]

Bruce,

I assume to start your tractor the key is turned two clicks clockwise, is that correct? One click to run, two clicks spring loaded to start. When you let go from start a spring returns it to the run position. Is that right? Seems the switch is missing the glow plug position.

A "Normal" diesel tractor switch works this way:

0 - Off
1 click CW - Run
2 clicks CW - spring loaded to Glow plugs
3 clicks CW spring loaded to Start (glow plugs off)
Let go from start - spring return to run position 1.

From 0 (Off) an OEM switch can be turned one spring loaded click CCW to activate the glow plugs so it has two glow plug positions.

From what you describe, the starter switch on your tractor is non standard for a diesel tractor. Maybe time to upgrade to the "Ford Switch" ? or perhaps order a starter switch for a 354 from Tommy @ affordable. No Ammeter? what does your dash panel look like? got any pics?


Larry

[jimmyt]

My 284 was built in December of 2007, bought new in April this year. It has that new whiz-bang Laidong 7SHLL1.53LDE engine. I've only had trouble starting it once, a week ago when winter finally hit the desert. My cold-weather technique isn't dialed in quite yet, but this is what worked for me after my first failed attempt:

1) Cracked hand throttle a bit.
2) Moved switch to the "heat" position (no detent or click, just before starter engages) for 20 seconds.
3) Opened the compression release.
4) Cranked until oil pressure showed on gauge.
5) Dumped compression release, started instantly, but ran rough until it warmed up a bit.

To be fair, it isn't all my own smarts that brought me to this sequence. I can't recall who posted the warning about this particular engine's problem with oil not draining through the head very well, but during my initial oil change it became clear that it didn't, so I heeded the advice of using the compression release and now do so religiously, cold or not. This tractor has to last me the rest of my life, so anything to help it out, I'm all for it!

Edit: It was Torgysbuick that mentioned the LD problems--thanks!

[shotley]

I read the other posts on using the compression release. I have tried it but as someone else mentioned it did not click with my own experimenting. It was 25 in my shop the other morning so I spun it up with the compression released until the oil pressure came up. I then gave it 25 seconds on the glow plugs and it started right up. It seems to be the answer for me. I did just do this once so I will try this tecnique again.

[red]

Stumppuller- betcha you have the arched type dash panel complete with no amp gauge. The round red lite means the key is in the on position (at least with mine it's on whether the engine is running or not)

Starting procedure-
1)turn key to H position sequence is Off/On/H/St
2)count to 15 slowly
3)turn decompression lever
4)move key to start after a few sec release decompression lever

Starts usually the first time and much easier after I adjusted the valves -Ed

[stumppuller]

Ed - your Tractor sounds the same as mine, whith the arched panel, glowing red light. I don't remember the exact positions though (my tractor in 45 min. away from me). I recall: Off, On, On with charging, Starter. I'm replacing the front axle & will be up there after Xmas, so I will document with notes, meter checks & photos.

I wonder if most of the electrical variatioins arise from the factory or from the dealerships that set them up?

Thanks for all your feedback,; it has been very helpful. Ihope you all have a great & peacefull Christmas holiday.

Bruce

[red]

Bruce I believe I've seen the same electrical panel/display on some DF's sad part I can't remember where! From what others (dealers too ) have said many of the manufacturers use the same part suppliers. Kinda like Detroit

[richardc]

Greetings to Gilroy "The Garlic Capitol of The World". On the Foton 254 the procedure for starting is: Turn the ignition switch over toward start, just before you reach cranking the amp meter will draw down to discharge, count to 10 or 15 then crank and she should start. I'm going to order a set of Glow Plugs. The plugs are suspect, there is a draw down so at least one must be working, I think the draw down shows a plug is working. The Block Heater is very nice. I pluged it in this morning, we went skiing till noon, the tractor started on the second rotation.
Richard

[richardc]

Sorry I didn't know there was a page 2, your question was already answered. Richard

[richardc]

Rob, 30sec is safe? I've been worried about going over 15sec. Richard

[shotley]

My original glow plugs started at 30 amps and dropped very little. I added a relay and much larger wiring to the glow plugs so they no longer go through the amp meter. I did take the advice of one comment, cut the fuel off hit the decompression and wind it up until I see oil pressure. I then give it 25 seconds at 25 degrees and it starts easily. I just never got the hang of the decompression lever but this works great.