Clutch Repair Kama 554

[3RRL]

Yesterday, the solar guy came up to fix the blown fuse and complete the by pass for the generator to run the shop. I needed that to run my large 7-1/2hp lathe plus the 10hp rotary phase converter motor. We found out running through the solar outback converters only, we can't run the electric dryer and start all those large motors at the same time. The amp draw is giant.

That gave me a chance to spin up the clutch alignment tool. It has 3 diameters on it. One for the pilot bearing, one for the PTO clutch and one for the main clutch.
I got the entire clutch pack mounted back onto the flywheel using it.
Once everything was concentrically lined up, I torqued the 6 bolts to 60ft/lbs.



When I set the PTO clutch gap on the bench, I did not compress the clutch pack to adjust that, so I had to adjust the 1.2mm PTO clutch gap once the assembly was mounted on the flywheel. I had to grind one open end wrench flat to fit under the other one to lock the 2 nuts together, but it was easy to do.
Here you can see the feeler gauges and wrench technique.
Rob-

[3RRL]

After that, it was time to slide the tractor back together again.
Tommy had warned me to be patient when trying to line up the halves. He advised me to prepare for several attemps but not to get discouraged. Most of all he told me NOT to use longer bolts to "suck" the 2 halves together. If the clutches or splines or pilot bearings are not lined up, you can seriously damage them by using force. He said roll the tractor together and it should "slide" together easily if engaged properly. He also said to engage the PTO so when it touches, you can rotate it from behind and "feel" the splines mesh and slide in once lined up.

It took Loretta and me several tries just to get the 2 halves somewhat close to lining up ... even before getting close to the splines. We must have rolled one half off crooked on splitting. Well, we got the 2 halves pretty close after rotating both halves a little and got the elevation of both halves correct. Then we started closing the gap. Each 1/2 inch or so we checked the line up through that little dinky inspection window which is a joke. Once the PTO splines hit we turned the shaft a little while at the same time pushing and "nudging" the tractor together. Then it engaged and we could feel it slide in another inch or so.
That was good.

Now we had to get the main clutch splines to line up.
We put the tractor in gear so the shaft would turn a little while moving the rear half. In nudging it together, the front half was pushed back a little each time until the those splines match up. Then it went together all the way to the dowel pins that line up the bell housing to the engine flange.
It was 1/2" from being home.

We tried repeatedly the "nudging" technique but soon discovered the engine side had tilted ever so slightly so the dowel pins were not lined up. I got a farm jack and lifted one side of the front half to "rotate" the dowel locations into place. Then the 2 halves got onto the dowel pins and there was about 3/8" gap left. At that time I put in the bell housing bolts and ran them up hand tight. A couple of little nudges and we could screw the bolts in more and more until there was only 1/8" gap. Then I used a wrench to equally seat all the bolts. There was very little pressure running them in so I was certain everything lined up.

Below are the photos of the tractor together again and also the gap between the release fingers and the throw out bearing. I think you can see the gap through the inspection window.
It is too big.

[3RRL]

I'm not done but I sure learned a lot from this.
In measuring the throw out bearing gap all 3 fingers were identical. So that was good.
But they measured 7.5mm ... about 5.5mm too much gap.
Why was that? I remembered that the PTO clutch had to be adjusted about the same amount after it was bolted into the flywheel pocket. Now I know I needed to compress the entire clutch pack with the PTO clutch in it. The PTO clutch compressed the Belleville disc springs which moved the pressure plates (both of them) more away from the flywheel, sucking the finger tips in more . In other words, the true stack height (now compressed with all the components inside) went back to 105.3mm.
Amazing!

Since I measured everything and ended up making my stack height 110.8mm instead of 105mm, that meant had I compressed all the components on the bench I would've been within .3mm of the 105mm stack height after all. I figure the .3mm difference might be due to clutch wear and new finger geometry, since they were all over the place. So I will adjust the outside linkage to get the 2mm release finger gap.

Had I done that, both the 1.2mm PTO gap AND the release finger stack height would've come in bang on. Next time I will spin up an aluminum plate with the same recess as the flywheel and clamp the whole shebang together. That will simulate exactly how the clutch pack, PTO gap and release finger gap will be when bolted to the flywheel. It will be a true clutch adjustment tool to make all the adjustments on the bench without having to make any on the tractor, including the exterior linkage.
lol ... that's next time.

Today I'll connect the 4wd shaft back up (it's in there already) and adjust the exterior linkage to get the 2mm release finger gap. Then start reconnecting all the little electrical, hydraulic, fuel lines and other linkages etc. I'll take some photos and get back to you guys to tell you how it all turned out.
I need to get my post count up anyway. ;D
Thanks for looking.
Rob-

[3RRL]

I did take up the release finger gap this afternoon by adjusting the linkage and also the stop for the clutch pedal. Then I made a long feeler gauge to measure the gap through the inspection window. It's 2mm thick on the machined end. I also tried to take a photo of the feeler gauge and the fingers, but it came out sort of crummy.



The clutch feels really good when I step on the pedal. There is a definite feeling between the main clutch and the PTO clutch now. I can't wait to get the rest of the tractor back together to try it out.
Rob-

[affordable]

Rob,great job as usual,sounds like the tractor will be working again by Sun down Friday.You are a very smart person you figure out the problem,then tackle it.Plus you are not afraid to ask questions.Glad everything worked out .Your pics and descriptions will help many others that will have to do a clutch one day,splitting the tractor is a big job but with the right tools and a little guidence from people like you it makes it alot easier to do

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales Co.
" Your Jinma parts Superstore"
www.affordabletractorsalesco.com

[bracabric]

Super job Rob I would have been sh!t scared to tackle it, I admire not only your ability but also your strength of character and purpose (and your assistant too!), wonderful job, it will help so many people in the future to see how you went about it as well as the description.
Happy new year my friend
Dick

[3RRL]

Thank you Tommy and Dick,
Happy New Year to you guys too.
I'll try to get the tractor wrapped up today. First I'm going to update the Log Home thread a little.
Rob-

[GuglioLS]

Nice job Rob, it's good to see your tractor going back together.
I see setting the "stack height" while off the tractor was a total waste of time. If I ever have to do that I will remember not to bother trying.

The felt washer behind the TOB seems a good alternative to an o-ring. I guess it's going back together as I speak?

Great photos and documentation.


Larry

[3RRL]

Thanks Larry,
Yes, the felt washer is a good idea and yes, the tractor is back together except the FEL. I wanted to make sure it would work so I left the inspection window open. And it does work. I drove it back and forth in the shop a few feet each direction. Both PTO and main clutch work fine.

One thing that's happening now ...
When I'm in neutral in the main transmission and the shuttle shifter is either in forward or reverse, it feels like it wants to go forward or reverse. It's like the way the PTO spins when in neutral, but you can stop it by your hand. It never did that before.
But when both the shuttle shifter is in neutral along with the main transmission in neutral, it doesn't do that at all.
Anybody have any idea why that could be?

Perhaps it has something to do with that I jammed it into gear a couple times when I had to get it into the barn and I had no clutch to disengage the trans? I probably screwed the gears up or bent a shifter fork? ...Doesn't feel or sound like that though. lol ... ha, Maybe a tranny rebuild is coming up? If nobody knows, I'll pull the transmission covers off and look at the forks and stuff in there.
Anyway, the clutch works good. It's crisp.

About setting the stack height on the bench, had I done it properly and compressed both the PTO and main clutches just like when bolted to the flywheel, it would have worked perfectly. If you measured to the throw out bearing, you can set the stack height to it, minus the 2mm gap and it should come in perfectly. If you haven't measured to the throw out bearing, set the stack height to book dimension and adjust the outer linkage until the throw out bearing and release fingers are 2mm apart. That's what I ended up doing because I didn't compress the clutch pack with everything in it like a dip shit. So yes, it should work if done right.

One thing about setting it one the bench vs doing it through the inspection window is that you can get all 3 release fingers exactly the same height like I did. I don't know about you, but I had a hard time getting the feeler gage, the wrenches, the light and being able to see though my little 2" x 2" opening. Maybe on the Jinmas the opening is bigger? You can also set the PTO clutch gap much more accurately and easier for the same reasons. Having done it both ways, it's like 10 times easier and more accurate on the bench. I wish I had compressed it correctly.
Rob-

[mariner]

Hi Rob,

It is good to read that you have finally got your tractor running again. With a bit of luck your concern over the shifter position will be unwarranted. Maybe with the clutches adjusted properly now, you are seeing something new happening - lets hope it isn't a sign of anything to be concerned about. I am sure one of the main dealers (Chip, Tommy etc.) could/will advise you on that.

Anyway, thanks for the well written write up - it is gonna be a big help to others that will eventually have to go through the same procedure. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading it as have many others.

Cheers

J.

[sokkerbob]

Rob,

Regarding your problem with shuttle shift. First, what is happening when you depress clutch in and out? In other words, does it go away when clutch is in? Second, are you saying it feels like tractor wants to move or the shift lever?

Bob

[affordable]

Rob,I would take a close look at the shift forks,it may have bent it a little.you just want to make sure when you get off the tractor it does not keep going.Sounds like it will be minor,I would put the loader on and work it a little to see if it straightens itself out

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales

[Rich Waugh]

Damn but you do nice work, Rob! Almost makes me want my clutch to go out so I can split my tractor and floss up all the little parts in its innards - NOT! (grin)

Thanks for all the effort you spend documenting your repairs and mods. That they're on a Kama and not a Jinma makes no real diference, as the fundamentals are the same and only the monor details differ. Your clear and concise descriptions and excellent photos constitute a tremendous resource for anyone with similar tractor issues, regardless of particular make or model, as your methodology and reasoning apply to almost anything. I findit a real pleasure to see a true craftsman at work. Thank you!

Rich

[3RRL]

Hey all you guys, thanks for the kind words!
Regarding the tractor wanting to creep forward, it's the tractor not the shifter lever. When I depress the clutch and both shuttle shift and transmission levers are in gear, it disengages completely ... the clutch works fine. So when the clutch is out, but the tranny shift lever is in gear, it wants to creep forward a bit. I can step on the brake and it stops and the engine keeps running. It has to be either a shifter fork or a bearing that got shifted slightly when I was either bumping it together or when I forced it into gear without the clutch (before the repair). I saw in the manual there should be .02 to .04mm clearance from the main shaft bearing to something done by "shims"? ... haven't taken the tranny cover off yet to check it out. I too think it's minor and I think I'll put the loader on (after I paint it) and work it a little to see if it disappears. I'll look into the tranny to see I can see something obvious first.

Sometimes doing the repair AND the documentation can get a little tiresome, but I always remember all those other guys who did the same thing before me. So I always try to take some photos and write a little thread about it, even for the no brainer stuff. lol .. I adjusted the brakes but forgot to take photos this morning ... what a retard. Sometimes you discover something ... a process or certain way to do it that might help others out. Many time I start doing something and write about it and then someone will tell me "OH Rob, there is a drain plug for that" or "this is how I did it" ... or whatever. The manuals are iffy at best and often hard to interpret, so someone actually doing it and documenting really helps. I'm glad you guys appreciate it.
Rob-

[GuglioLS]

Jan 3, 2009 0:03:54 GMT -5 3RRL said:

...............
One thing that's happening now ...
When I'm in neutral in the main transmission and the shuttle shifter is either in forward or reverse, it feels like it wants to go forward or reverse. It's like the way the PTO spins when in neutral, but you can stop it by your hand. It never did that before.
But when both the shuttle shifter is in neutral along with the main transmission in neutral, it doesn't do that at all.
Anybody have any idea why that could be?...........Rob-

Interesting -

Here are my thoughts on that....
The FEL is removed - lighter tractor, Huge Kama is on a smooth flat level surface for the first time in it's life and the tyranny fluid is probably cold? I bet it's just fluid coupling and nothing to worry about (I hope) Ride your tractor around for an hour or so pulling your box blade to warm up the gear oil, maybe it will go away after it warms up?

The 2" x 2" clutch inspection port sounds small, just like the Ash Hole on your wood stove ;D

My Jinma 354 clutch inspection port is like a barn door by comparison:



Larry