Obamacare

[carld]

Obamacare

We do need a more affordable health care system but is this it? NO, I don’t think so.

Democratic Representative John Dingell said, “it takes a long time to put together the necessary steps to control the people”. What do you suppose the end game is from that statement and what does he mean by “control the people”? If this was such a good thing why did they have to buy the yes votes of the Representatives? Shouldn’t that have raised a question in your mind?

So you think that now everyone will be covered from cradle to grave with health care at a cheaper cost? So now the insurance company has to cover everyone regardless of past history or illness and the price is supposed to be the same as or lower than now. Think about this, when they add in all the extra expenditures to cover everyone no matter what the illness and/or medicines what makes you think the price will be lower when their costs skyrocket. Those that have 1 million dollars or more medical bills per year will be added to the current costs and there are a lot of them.

Medicaid rolls are going to increase under the new program by taking away from the Medicare program. Guess what will happen when the over 65 age Medicare patient has a bill near or more than a half million dollars or even less.

When the insurance companies can’t afford or refuse to cover everyone and still make a profit the government will step in with their own insurance policy. But wait, guess who pays for all the government socialist programs, well gosh, it’s the tax payers. An insurance company that is for profit will not sell insurance policies and lose money and that is where the Obamacare is intended to take over, remember what Rep. Dingell said about controlling the people. Remember the government insurance was kicked out of the current law because of the cost and objections but it can and will be put back in when the insurance companies stop coverage. I find it hard to believe the government can provide coverage for the fine of $695 annually and the insurance companies charge $10,000+ annually even considering a profit margin. There are the bureaucrats to pay out of the $695 AND the health care. How is that going to work out? Higher taxes of course.

I expect the insurance companies will sell coverage for a while. I find it hard to believe they can sell the extended coverage required by the new law at the same price or lower price than they charge now. It appears this was the easiest way to get the full socialist form of medical care forced on the people in the USA with no thought as to how much it will cost the PEOPLE. Remember, the government is funded by taxing the PEOPLE. However, if your not working they will give you money and insurance free at the workers expense so how do you working stiffs like that? Remember the story about the frog in cold water on a fire, are you starting to feel like a frog in a pot of water?

They are talking about using a Value Added Tax (VAT) to help pay the insurance cost along with the other tax increases. This is like a sales tax on what you buy and they are talking a few percent to start with. Think about this, in Europe the current VAT to support their Socialist health care system is from 19% to 25%. How long do you think it will take our wonderful representatives to get our VAT up to say 20%? Not very long I would think and that’s 20 cents on every dollar you spend. Just as a thought, Ky sales tax is 6% so you would be paying 26 cents on every dollar spent. Don’t forget that you will still pay income tax and all the other hidden taxes we have now. Feeling more like a frog yet?

The fact is we may not want to pay the taxes required to have a socialist form of health care and in fact we may not even be able to afford it. Also, what makes you think a bureaucratic form of health care will be better than the private health care system we have now. I expect it will be the same or worse. Have you ever seen anything the government is involved in as being better?

Tax and spend, the tax payers can afford it according to the Democrats.

[red]

Well I am not surprised. The Government ran the banks into the ground (with legislation requiring that everyone be able to own a home and no regulation enforcement). Insurance is next. God help our grandchildren! What do you expect from a President that bows to the Kings of the Middle and Far East and tells the Jews to F off? Don't worry the politicians are just getting started. Lots of illegals to naturalize and new vat tax to fund our new economic order

[bracabric]

VAT is the general sales tax of Europe and in the UK for example is 17.5%, it's main virtues are that it's a tax on spending (save and not spend, don't pay), it makes you keep your books up to date (quarterly returns) and specific groups can easily reclaim what they have paid in tax if they are allowed (fuel for transport for example). The theory is fine but as with all things of a socialist nature, they are never enough for the governments appetite and the public end up paying both the VAT consumption tax AND a large chunk from their income as well,when the current socialist government took over 13 years ago, the government took in taxes 36.4% of GDP and now wonder of wonders takes 52% of GDP whilst having run up the worst financial deficit position in the G20 countries
Over Health issues, as a none American I don't want to intrude into private grief but, I was brought up with medicine and Hospitalisation free (paid out of tax) at the point of delivery and it seems strange to me that a first world country like the USA can have 45 million? people with no access to health care HOWEVER, following the British model would in my opinion be a great and costly mistake.The bureaucracy and multiple layers of management are out of control and for all the billions and billions thrown at the NHS (National Health Service) a pathetically small proportion hits the front line with the rest going on large numbers of people busy administrating each other. The last couple of times I wanted to see my general practitioner in the UK I had to wait a week before he could fit me in and then I only had 10 minutes with him (or her) as he was so hard pressed . In contrast here in Chile if I call for an appointment it's almost always the same day and sometimes the same hour and for a modest fee.One of the problems is that being completely free at the point of delivery everyone goes to see their Doctor or Clinic with even the most trivial problems that a sticking plaster would cure. It's worth noting that so bloated (of fresh tax payers money) has the British NHS become that whilst the Chinese Army is the worlds biggest employer and the Indian railways the second, the British NHS is the third largest employer and in a country of only 65 million people !! The French (as usual) have done better with state of the art medical care across the country BUT you have to pay a (small) amount towards your treatment which gets rid of the time wasters like magic.
I have no idea what you will decide to do in the USA but I wish you all success and earnestly implore you DON'T follow the British model, it's a recipe for mediocrity at a huge price !!

Dick

[carld]

That's interesting. At CTOA someone suggested the German type but I saw a documentary on health care systems and they pointed out that Japan has one of the best systems. How ever this plays out we need to control the costs/profits and keep the hypochondriacs out of the doctors offices.

I just hope we can make changes to this new law that will make it less government control. We do need a way to make health care more affordable but not a socialist program. That may be asking to much though.

[studor]

Every system has its flaws but one thing is pretty clear -- the U.S.spends more money on health care than other countries and has amongst the worst outcomes. Some places like InterMountain health are amazing -- others? well in military parlance they are less than 100% successful. I watch what is unfolding in the U.S. with great interest since I work in the healthcare system up here -- bottom line to healthcare? -- don't get sick

[red]

-- bottom line to healthcare? -- don't get sick [/quote]

OR have lots of money!

Just amazes me how everyone says how crappy our health care system is but everyone with the means (ie CASH) comes here for the Best medical treatment in the world. A lot of our problems with cost can be directly tyed to an out of control legal system. Texas fixed it with caps limits on the amounts for "pain and suffering"

Lots of money applies to the legal system as well More money the more you can get away with!

[bracabric]

Sorry Red, Generally accepted that the best medical service and the best place to get ill is France, state of the art across the country. Switzerland, Austria , Germany, Sweden and Norway are not to be sneezed at either,
Dick

[carld]

I think the USA has some of the finest medical facilities in the world but maybe the prices are a little high compared to other countries. It's a fact that things will be changing now so we will see how it all rolls out.

[jimmyt]

We do have some of the best facilities and specialists in the world here in the USA, no doubt. In the nearest city to me, Las Vegas NV, most of those specialists are imports from overseas. Our system allows them to charge as much as they want, so it's more a matter of economics than anything else. I've had plenty of experience with the healthcare system in the USA, and it's kept me pretty broke. I've got pretty decent insurance for a hobo, but there's a lot of stuff they don't cover, as well as little gimmics the insurers have come up with to dig a little deeper. Obama campaigned with health care reform as a big plank in his platform, it's not like he pulled a fast one on us. I don't like it all that much either, but probably for different reasons than everyone else--I don't think it went far enough.

[carld]

Personally I would like to see the whole health care system ran on a non profit basis by religious groups as in the past. That means health insurance, hospitals, clinics, nursing homes, rehabilitation homes and anything else that has to do with health care. The only thing that may not be able to fall under the non profit halo is the doctors but it could be arranged that their profits could be managed so as to create reasonable fees.

Of course the earnings of the management and workers would have to be controlled other wise it wouldn't be long before the CEO and others would be making a ridiculous wage.

I don't want to see the government running anything that has to do with health care. If the private non profit groups ran it with oversight by outside auditing methods to keep them honest it would be much better than any government run program.

It worked in the past and it can work today. It was only when profiteers realized there is money in health care that our troubles started. You can look for the crooks and thieves to be in anything that we need to live.