Flushing using Kerosene or Diesel?

[torgysbuick]

I wondered if anyone had an opinion or definite factual knowledge about fluids used to flush out the Chinese sludge in my new Jinma 284...

I've read on other forums that kerosene is the appropriate fluid to use for flushing the hydraulics and gear boxes after draining out the original fluid, to ensure the new fluid isn't immediately contaminated. However, here in the PNW Kerosene costs about $9 a gallon, and thus 5 gallons has cost me more than the 80w90 or AW32!!!!

Often diesel is substituted for kerosene, and I was wondering if it would work here as well? I have no experience with either diesel or kerosene so I'm totally ignorant. Please edumucate me.

And as a closer, I know and everyone else should, too, to never use anything like diesel or kerosene in the crankcase of a diesel engine as a flush!!! It will most likely cause the motor to break!!!

Thanks!

Erik

[GuglioLS]

Hi Erik,

My personal opinion is to never introduce kerosene or diesel into an area that is lubricated with oil. There is one particular individual on the tractor boards who has run-a-muck insisting every new tractor owner must flush their tractor. He has mislead allot of new folks into believing the internals of these tractors are totally trashed with metal shavings and foreign material - NOT SO!

Some new tractors owners are afraid their tractor has been ruined because it was started and run on the OEM oils - again another myth. Although the OEM fluids are of questionable quality, many many a tractor owner (my self included) ran their new tractor about 5-10 hours on the OEM oils, then drain and replace with known good quality USA brand oils and lubricants, then replace all the filters. This approach seems to work just fine.

There is no harm in replacing all oils right off the bat, if it would give you better peace of mind. Many of the Reputable dealers do this as part of their new tractor prep service.

IMHO - Flushing with expensive kerosene or diesel is a total waste of money, time, and resources, plus you risk causing more problems than it could potently solve by running the tractor with those thin, poor lubricating fuel oils.

Just my two cents worth.


Larry

[mariner]

Hi,

On my old MF-65, when I bought it three years ago, the rear transmission oil was like treacle. I drained it and filled up with diesel (sorry Larry) and just ran it for about five mins, maybe less. Then drained out the diesel overnight - you would not believe the crap tht came out of the gearbox. I even took off some inspection covers and wiped out inside where I could reach. The internals were like new, a nice red colour. I don't know how dirty everything was before I used the diesel, but it sure was clean afterwards.

On my new tractor - I got a crated deal, the transmission was emptied before it was sent. I just filled the transmission with the appropriate oil - same with the front differential. I ran the engine for the time it took me to go through the recommended break in period and then changed the oil out for new 15W40 diesel oil.
The hydraulics on my mchine, was very slow and I ended up changing the oil twice. First I installed 46 oil but found the response still too slow. Drained and refilled using 32 hydraulic oil and that made a big difference (it gets pretty cold where I am, down to -35C). Of course, the oil filters were changedout on the first oil change. The only oil I have not looked at yet (40 hours so far) is the injection pump oil. That I intend to do with the next oil change.

I have t agree with with Larry on that I believe some owners get a little bit carried away with oil changes and flushing. Common sense should be used, no matter what you are doing ;D ;D ;D

HTH

mariner.

[studor]

Just me but why don't you drop the fluids as normal and judge what comes out -- if it looks bad, consider flushing with diesel after wiping suctioning etc to get out as much as possible. I am with Mariner. common sense work wonders. If you do decide to flush, consider using a "sacrifice" filter during the flush -- its more expensive but you probably won't ever need to do it again.
P.S. Mariner -- as luck would have it the injector oil in mine is the only fluid that was ever low on the dipstick when checked. It is a PIA to change in the cold but was worth it in my case

[torgysbuick]

As an update, so far I've pulled the engine oil, injector pump oil, and transmission/creeper box lube. The engine oil was black and very thick, at best a straight 40w oil. The transmission lube appeared to be the exact same fluid as that used in the engine as far as viscosity, only it had a dark golden color with what appeared to be a lot of brass/copper suspended in the oil. It was very shimmery. The injector pump had very very light weight oil, almost water, and a fluorescent yellow color. Smelled like fish. Strangest stuff I've ever seen.

By hobby I'm an old car guy, and I know flushing old engines and transmissions briefly with kerosene can be very beneficial - thus my interest and desire to do it here. On top of that, systems like the hydraulics are very very hard to remove all the original fluid so an intermediate flush with a very light weight solvent-type fluid could greatly increase the amount of goo removed. Needless to say, the idea makes sense but I am concerned about the practice.

Based on what came out of the gear box I'm totally unconvinced either way. The fluid didn't look bad, perse, but definitely wrong. Continue discussion please.....

[Ranch Hand]

gugliols said:

Hi Erik,

My personal opinion is to never introduce kerosene or diesel into an area that is lubricated with oil. There is one particular individual on the tractor boards who has run-a-muck insisting every new tractor owner must flush their tractor. He has mislead allot of new folks into believing the internals of these tractors are totally trashed with metal shavings and foreign material - NOT SO!

Some new tractors owners are afraid their tractor has been ruined because it was started and run on the OEM oils - again another myth. Although the OEM fluids are of questionable quality, many many a tractor owner (my self included) ran their new tractor about 5-10 hours on the OEM oils, then drain and replace with known good quality USA brand oils and lubricants, then replace all the filters. This approach seems to work just fine.

There is no harm in replacing all oils right off the bat, if it would give you better peace of mind. Many of the Reputable dealers do this as part of their new tractor prep service.

IMHO - Flushing with expensive kerosene or diesel is a total waste of money, time, and resources, plus you risk causing more problems than it could potently solve by running the tractor with those thin, poor lubricating fuel oils.

Just my two cents worth.


Larry

I agree with larry ...... that particular individual is good for the parts buisness.

One needs to use care when flushing if and when it is needed.

My .5¢

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

[quikduk]

ranchhand said:

gugliols said:

I agree with larry ...... that particular individual is good for the parts buisness.

One needs to use care when flushing if and when it is needed.

My .5¢

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

WOW Ronald. One half a cent? You must be selling tractors and parts like crazy! ;D JK

I agree and that is why I too ran the thing for 10 hours before changing the engine oil. My dealer had already changed out all of the other fluids to USA spec stuff. I changed everything again at 100 hrs. and am due for the next 50 hr. engine oil/filter and hyd. filter, fuel filter change. So far, so good.

BTW, I change all three filters every time I change the engine oil so every 50 hrs. They are relatively inexpensive from Napa/Baldwin so it helps with my piece of mind...what little is left... ;D

[red]

I agree with Larry- just couldn't bring myself to the point of pouring kerosene into my tractor. I did admitly flush the gear box with diesel (5 minutes No load) and have had no problems. Did you know the chinese manual recommends cleaning the oil filter with diesel? (and I thought I was cheap!) The gear box oil smelled like something straight from a toxic dump- no clumps or shavings and I know most gear oils smell from the zinc additives. -Ed

[dougw]

I did the kero-flush thing in my rear diff. housing, but only because I had the lift box off anyway and could verify that all kero was removed before oil fillup. And I'm glad I did because there was a TON of crap in the bottom of the housing. I would not recommend kero/diesel flush in an area you cannot verify the removal of kero.

[3RRL]

I have never flushed with kerosene or diesel, fearing the worst might/could happen.
My 2005 Kama came semi-serviced and I changed the oils and filters (all) at 50 hours. Loretta's brand new Jinma came from China came with decent looking oil in everything...not what we're used to. Right now we have 17 hours on that oil and it still looks good. So we are thinking of changing it at the 50 hour mark unless something changes.

The stuff you see and read about being in the cases or pans .. the shavings etc, from first break-in, a lot of that remains there in the corners because of the weight. For example, in changing my trans/rear end fluid for the 2nd time after 400 hours on my Kama, I finally opened the rear magnet up and there were some metal shavings and a tubular dowel stuck to it. It did not get circulated up into the gears, it was brand new. The smaller particles that do get thrown around in circulation should be picked up by the filters or magnets. BTW, I also put magnets on the filters.
Common sense goes a long way with oils, filters and changes.
Unfortunately, common sense isn't very common.
Rob-

[linus69]

I have used kerosene to flush out everything mentioned above for years and have had no problems associated with it`s use. I have flushed out some amazing junk from gearboxes and rear ends.
I find that any residue kerosene evaporates quickly, but I hear you about the cost of a gallon nowadays. I think horses and mules may make a comeback.

Paul

[red]

I think horses and mules may make a comeback.

Paul[/quote]

Paul as long as their not Arabian! ;D ;D Have you seen the lastest list (on the internet) about who not to buy gas from?
-Ed

[torgysbuick]

I wanted to make a final note on this -

I did not flush my engine with anything, nor my transmission/front end.

I did, however, use a 'radiator flush' after clearing out all the original coolant and running the hose down the radiator cap for about five minutes with the engine running. Even though the hose netted totally clear water coming out the drain, five minutes with the 'flush' solution in there brought out dark rusty water when flushed. I refilled with SCA coolant.

I also flushed the hydraulic system with diesel. I wasn't going to, but the fluid I drained out appeared to be the same fluid that was in the engine and transmission ~40w oil. It makes sense since the hydraulics barely worked. After draining as much hydraulic fluid as I could (including starting the process with the 3pt and FEL raised then lowering them once the tank was empty, and working the power steering) I filled it with 1 1/2 gallons diesel and ran the hydraulics up and down a few times, then repeated the drain procedure. Once again, the fluid that came out did not resemble diesel at all! It was black with small chunks of stuff in it. I feel much better having done that, and my hydraulic pump no longer screams full time and the hydraulics operate very very well. I'm glad I did both of these flushes, and when I do the gearboxes next I plan to flush them, too.

[linus69]

Hey Rob, just my 2cents, but I`d change that chinese oil out of the Honeybee at 5hrs not 50. The chinese are famous for their poor quality lubricants, maybe it`s a little better now than it used to be, but how good is it?
For peace of mind I like certified diesel motor oil and an American filter, it`s cheap insurance, why take even a little chance with the brides tractor.

Paul

[torgysbuick]

I agree, I didn't catch that you hadn't changed out the fluid at all. The gear box fluid in mine was way to light, and the hydraulic fluid way way to thick. The engine oil was about the right viscosity, but had already blackened after only an hour. I think the same fluid was used everywhere. I can't see why you wouldn't change the fluids? It is cheap insurance, and even the owners manual says to change all the fluids after the break in, which even according to schedule was about 15 hours. Does anyone actually do the whole break in schedule as outlined in the manual?