Replacing Pinion Bearing Jinma 354

[sokkerbob]

I'm going to hijack your hijacking. I was looking at my parts manual, and I noticed that for the hi-lo sliding gear it lists two possible part numbers, 300.37.134 and 300.37.134A. In your wanderings have you investigated this?

FYI Here is a couple pictures of that gear




In order to completely change gearing, it seems you would have to change two other gears In my book page 68 part # 15 spline sleeve main shaft and page 62 part no 16 sliding gear, 1st reverse speed.

If you just wanted to slow down high speed, you would need to change the sliding gear pictured above and spline sleeve main shaft.

I do not see options for these two other gears. However, in the manual, I do several times that the phrase "selected by user" referring to user options such as tire size, etc.

Believe it or not I sent an email to Jinma factory when I first started this project. Here is their response

Dear Mr.Bob,

I am very glad to receive your e-mail.I think,you have to remove the seat and lifter,and dismantle the final driving housing.But if you provide the pictures of the problem ,it is better for us to solve the problem.
If you have any question,please don't hesitate to contact me .

Best regards,
Allan 朱世楼
Jiangsu Yueda Yancheng Tractor MFG.Co.,Ltd.
www.jm-tractor.com
E-mail:[e-mail]
Tel:[phone]
Fax:[phone]

So there is info if you want to get an answer from the factory.

[sokkerbob]

Hello everyone,

I made some modifications to previous post and added some more pictures. When I reassemble I will try to fill in gaps. Let me know if there is anything you want a closer look at or need more details.

Bob

[GuglioLS]

Bob,

I'm with you in that to slow down the high range, both the sliding gear and main splined shaft would need to be changed. The parts book does not show options for the main shaft, nor does it explain or show what that User selectable gear looks like or what it does. Heck, I have no idea which of the two optional gears our transmissions have in them to start with.

In my parts book dated 2004.12 pages 80 through 84, there are many optional shifter forks and sliding shafts.

Page 81 item21, page 82 items 22, 24, 26.
Page 83 item 47 (the entire gear box body)
Page 84 item 56 Shift fork shaft, it's either a 3rd/4th shift shaft or a 2nd/4th shift shaft.

Based on all the information I have poured over the years, I have come to the conclusion there are at least two versions of the transmission with two different shift patterns. Also there is a dual stage clutch transmission (ours) and a single stage clutch transmission.

Not only that there are options for the rear-end ring gear - page 70 item 4, the Final drive gears page 85 item 21, and the 4WD transfer case - page 97, 98,99,100.

Oh and there is a High ground clearance version of the 354, see page 88.

OK who wants to write a letter to Mr. Allan asking them to sort all this out? I'm guessing that Mr. Allen is his assumed "American" name. Maybe several of us asking the correct questions may get some answers? I know Tommy and Ronald have tried but got "All Jinma 300's are geared the same" or something to that effect. If I remember correctly at one point Tommy and Jerry said they do not remember the 354's ever being that fast, especially in reverse.

Ok Enough of that already. I look forward to seeing Bob get his 354 fixed up.


Larry

[sokkerbob]

I will send him and email and see what response we get.

Bob

[sokkerbob]

Larry

Here is copy of email I sent. I stole some of your verbage. Be interesting to hear his reply

Hello Allan

Before tractor broke, I noticed that gearing for reverse in high range was very fast. I realize that to slow down the high range, both the sliding gear and main splined shaft would need to be changed. Is there option available for slower speed reverse in high gear? Based on all the information I have poured over the years, I have come to the conclusion there are at least two versions of the transmission with two different shift patterns. Can you advise?

Bob

Bob

[GuglioLS]

Bob,

I went back through your entire thread after you updated it, nice job in filling in some of the blanks. This is worthy of printing out and adding to a 354 owners manual. You took some great detailed photos and made excellent observations. I find it amazing you and your brother got it apart so quickly. When you complete this photo doc, I could convert your efforts to an Adobe or word doc if you so desire. I would convert only your technical description and photos to make it a clean document. Maybe add some pics of the needle bearings and or any bushings you encountered.

Did you find any brass or bronze bushings? A few have expressed concern about using gear oil that is safe for yellow metals in these transmissions and rear-ends, I don't think there are any yellow metals in there, is that right? You might be the one who finally puts that question to rest once and for all.

Thanks for taking the initiative in writing Mr. Allen asking about the reverse gearing. Hope he comes back with an informative response. The double geared reverse idler shipped to you today. I think it's for the single stage clutch transmission configuration, so it may be just a waste of time, but I have to know for sure one way or the other. I do appreciate you taking the time to look at it.

I can't remember if you said definitively that the bearing retaining ring was at fault. Did you make a positive determination as to the root cause of the failure? Maybe post a close up picture of what actually failed and what it will take to prevent it from occurring in the future.

This is an awesome transmission tear down and repair post. You and your bro basically took 1/2 your tractor completely apart - very Impressive.

Larry

[quicksandfarmer]

Larry --
I managed to dig up the specs on the Nortrac 30 hp:

www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200133424_200133424

It seems like it has the same hi/lo with the 4.4:1 ratio.

It's funny that the high reverse, with a nominal speed of 4.4 mph (at 2200 rpm I think) seems like it's incredibly fast.

[GuglioLS]

QuickSand -
Thats for checking that out and posting the link. I wonder if the Nortrac's are REALLY geared like that? Does anyone know anyone with a Nortrac?
Below are the specs I found during my research in 2005. On my 354, reverse H is more like 7 MPH, basically the same as second forward H. Not only is it fast in reverse H, you can's do any work in reverse H, (it bogs down with the slightest load).

Fast Transmission (most all 354's): KPH / MPH

L1 2.04 / 1.2
L2 2.73 / 1.7
L3 3.82 / 2.4
L4 5.76 / 3.6
H1 8.94 / 5.6
H2 11.96 / 7.4
H3 16.76 / 10.4
H4 24.89 / 15.5
Reverse Low 2.59 / 1.6 MPH
Reverse High 11.38 / 7 MPH

Slow (unobtainable? transmission):
(Nortrac only?)
L1 1.79
L2 2.27
L3 3.69
L4 5.58
H1 7.63
H2 9.64
H3 15.69
H4 24.89
Reverse Low 1.67 / 1 MPH
Reverse high 7.14 / 4.4 MPH

Larry

P.S. - Bob, I sure hope you don't mind all these side discussions. If you find it a nuisance, please speak up and we can move it over to another thread.

Larry

[sokkerbob]

Larry,

Answers to your questions:

Did you find any brass or bronze bushings? A few have expressed concern about using gear oil that is safe for yellow metals in these transmissions and rear-ends, I don't think there are any yellow metals in there, is that right? You might be the one who finally puts that question to rest once and for all.

We did not see any brass or bronze bushings. I will make sure when we reassemble.

I can't remember if you said definitively that the bearing retaining ring was at fault. Did you make a positive determination as to the root cause of the failure? Maybe post a close up picture of what actually failed and what it will take to prevent it from occurring in the future.

The circlip was not in the grove. The first thing that happens on reassembly is the pinion bearing is pressed on to shaft. Then the circlip goes on. I just think they were not paying attention. I ordered a new circlip just to compare. I will take some pictures and post for the board to examine.

I plan on taking a lot more pictures when we reassemble. I think this will fill in the rest of gaps.

Bob

[sokkerbob]

I received a reply back from Mr. Allan. I had sent him two emails. The first was asking about reassembly of pinion bearing shaft. The second was about the reverse gear. He combined both answers in his reply.
It looks like it might be hopeful for reverse gear. Here is his reply

Dear Mr.Bob,

I asked our engineer,he told me:First press bearing onto shaft and then install circlip.After this ,put shaft in through back of case and slide gears onto shaft. Then press pinion bearing into case. The back front roller bearing on this shaft also appeared to be pressed on.Now there Is option available for slower speed reverse in high gear.And the tires need be changed.
If you have any question,please don't hesitate to contact me .

Best regards,
Allan 朱世楼
Jiangsu Yueda Yancheng Tractor MFG.Co.,Ltd.
www.jm-tractor.com
E-mail:[e-mail]
Tel:[phone]
Fax:[phone]

And here is my reply back.

Hello Allan,

Thank you very much for your helpful reply. Is it possible to order parts to change tractor from higher speed reverse in high gear to slower speed reverse in high gear? There are several tractors owners in USA that would like to change to slower speed reverse in high gear.


Kind Regards,

Bob Andresen

Bob

[GuglioLS]

Bob,
Thanks for the follow up.

Interesting reply. Change the tires? I wonder to what size? Please ask Mr. Allan exactly what part numbers are needed to convert the gears to a slower reverse speed. My concern would be to not slow down reverse in the Low range, Low reverse is already too slow. If somehow the entire Hi range could be slowed down without affecting the low range. IMHO that would be the perfect gearing combination for these 354's.

Larry

[sokkerbob]

Larry

Will do. I will wait for his response to my last email. I was also a little puzzled by his answer. Maybe things will clear up on his next response. He usually answers within 24 hrs.

Bob

[sokkerbob]

Here is Mr Alans latest reply.

Dear Mr.Bob,

It is very huge works.It involves to change rear tires and some parts of the driving gearbox transmission.I think it is better to place a new order while remarking your request.If you have any question,please don't hesitate to contact me .

Best regards,
Allan 朱世楼
Jiangsu Yueda Yancheng Tractor MFG.Co.,Ltd.
www.jm-tractor.com
E-mail:[e-mail]
Tel:[phone]
Fax:[phone]

I believe he is saying it would be better to order a new tractor. I assuming better means better overall value to get new tractor instead of trying to retrofit an older one. The thing with tires still has me scratching my head. I will be happy to continue pursuing.

Larry,

Based on above information, what question(s) do you think I should ask next? I will copy verbatim if you post or send me email.

Bob

[sokkerbob]

Hello Larry,

Received your gear today. Although totally unnecessary, thank you for the little gift. It brought a smile to wife and I. Pretty sure it will be a hit with grandkids also.

I have been running some other errands while waiting for parts. Jerry at Affordable said they shipped out this afternoon, so I should have by Wednesday.

I did a preliminary check and your idea has possibilities. However, I noticed in my parts manual that there are different numbers for thrust right and reverse shaft. I am guessing that these might position gear in different location. I think in order for you idea to work you need to move gear to front of tractor. The reverse shaft I have now would not allow this to happen.


Bob

[GuglioLS]

Bob,
Thanks for checking into this and your update. I know all this takes time.

No surprise Mr. Allan is eager to sell new tractor but not give specific details on what gears to change. Or how to order a slower? tractor. I'm not looking for an elaborate procedure just all the pat #'s for the gears.

I guess my response / questions would be -

Dear Mr Allan,
Thank you for taking time to help me. You provide good customer service, much appreciated. Buying new tractor is not option, as already have purchased tractor and need to slow it down, (it travel too fast). My tractor already in many pieces so I am capable of installing new tires and gears. Please help me with part numbers to make it go slower. I will figure out how to put in new gears.
Please specify exact part numbers for all gears to slow it down, also what size tires? I pay top American dollar to buy parts from Jinma factory. If I have all correct part numbers and parts, I can figure out how to install gears. Thank you so much for all your time to help me. Thousands of American tractor owners would like to slow down their Jinma 354 tractors, having a slower speed gear kit available would make you a hero and bring you good fortune.

Thank you for help.
B
_________________________________________________
(Or something to that effect)

Bob - I'll give you a call.

Larry