Top & Tilt Install

[tuffytractor]

I started with assembling the stacked valve set.


Then I played around with possible mounting positions.


You can see where my spot weld messed up my fiberglass, I'll have to touch that up before the final mount.I put a rubber bumper between the strong-back and the fender to cut down on vibration. Then made up the bracket and got it painted.


Then started to place the valve in earnest to find my Hydraulic hose lengths.


I was trying to use the fender as a buffer zone to keep brush and branches from sweeping into the valve, so I was a little reticent to go outside of its boundary during the mount. I thought of cutting down the plate, but thought the over-sized mount may offer some protection from the valve itself taking a hit should something solid (like a tree branch) come in contact. We'll see if I like the configuration, once I get a chance to use it. I've different handles coming, which I think will make the valves positioning very comfortable. (I hope! We'll see?)



Here are the initial mock-ups for the cylinders. Top & Side. It was relatively easy to find bushing for the Top Link (Cat 2 to Cat 1) but the for the side links I ended up special ordering some spring bushings from: www.connexusa.com/ O.D. of 1", I.D. of 5/8" X 5/8" wide. Which will make each side link that had a 1" pin holes accept our existing mounts. I'll put one in each arm of the clevis mounts for the side links. I had to order 56 pieces @ $1.56 each, but Ken is going to take 8 (part of my trade for the coolant mount and reservoir), if anybody else wants any let me know. The side links came from (www.baileynet.com/links/catalog.pdf) Sale - page 20, item #219 008 $49 apiece. 2" Bore, 6" stroke. With this as my top link, Ken found this one and I agreed it would be a good one. www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006110909554153&item=9-7259-8&catname=h




Then put it all together...


Here is the final Handle configuration.


Standard Handles (like the SV picture):

-Vertical Joystick Kit No.: 660180026 (bent at about a 90)
-Straight Joystick Kit No.: 660180028 $15.00
-Short Joystick Kit No.: 660180087 $13.00
-Heavy Duty Adjustable Joystick Kit No.: 660180007 $29.90

www.princehyd.com/Default.aspx?tabid=45
then scroll down to the parts manual for Stacked Valves (SV) pages 18,19,20 or try this- but it doesn't always work...
www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/SVManual.pdf

I ordered through Surplus Center

I'm happy to report that the Top & Tilt makes everything so much easier, especially while box blading. I can't say I'm an expert and I'm glad the tractor is so strong pulling slowly, because it gives me time to make the adjustments on the fly. One thing I did while buying the stacked valves, is put in a float option for the top link. I find I use that feature a lot while smoothing road beds on the finishing passes. Adjust the blades so they are in the right position, hit the float the weight of the box stays on flattening, no matter what the terrain does. For those of us that don't spend a great deal of time on the tractor (it must be a cheat, because it is so easy) its really a big benefit.

Can't say enough about how great these addition is, I'm very happy with the result.

[quicksandfarmer]

Tim --

Nicely done. I'm in the middle of doing the same project with my 354, in fact I got a box from Surplus Center today. I'm going with a 2x10 for the top link and a 2x8 for the side link, because ... well, just because, I guess.

I was able to order bushings here: www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/AZ8324.html . They are 7/8" long, which is a little too long. So I had to get a new clevis pin from Tractor Supply, but the shortest one they had was 4", so I had to get a locking collar for it. It works, it just looks a little ungainly.

Did the upper end clevis of the tilt cylinder fit into the ball joint no problem? I know some people have reported having to grind the ball a smidgen to get it to fit. I havent' had a chance to fit mine yet.

Also, can you tell me a bit about how you plumbed it? I don't see a power-beyond hose (although it's hard to tell). I'm going back and forth with whether I should plumb up a power-beyond return, which means tearing into the hydraulic plumbing, or just split the quick-connects on the loader and run it in series. I'm also debating whether to put the remotes upstream or downstream of the loader. The current thinking, subject to change, is downstream of the loader, no power-beyond.

From reading other forums, it seems like it is much easier to do this using off-the-shelf parts on a Jinma than on a "name-brand" tractor. I get the impression that if you go through a green or orange dealer you're looking at double the cost easy. Another unsung advantage of our "off-brand" tractors!

[tuffytractor]

Quicksandfarmer

I opted for the "in series method" which you can barely make out here.



Comes from my FEL Out, to the T&T In, then returns back along the same path. My Top Link Ball fit right in, just had to put in the bushing to make it fit my Cat I. Some of these mods may seem pricey, but I have found them to be well worth it. To do the same on a name brand would cost 4X as much, (Although their controls are sexier) I'm not sure I would/could afford to do the same mod.

I think it was Rob's unending happiness with his addition of this mod, that really pushed me over the edge and made me attempt it. I'm sure, like I and everyone else that has gotten it done, you will find it is a joy to have. Makes tractor work all that much more effective and fun. I forgot to mention, Rob has suggested to use a length of garden hose to find your hose lengths, I thought a good suggestion. Don't forget to add/subtract fittings lengths to the overall length. Good Luck, you'll have it done in no time.

[pete]

Tim, I was looking at your and Rob's post on hydraulic 3pts. I was going to replace just 1 side link with Hydraulic and was wondering about the weight it will hold. Have you had anything heavy on yours and did you find any creep , I would like to continue using my 3pt Jinma backhoe and was wondering if I would need to install a check valve as Rob did? Thanks.

[quikduk]

Pete:

That would be a good idea. I did not install pilot operated check valves on any of my links and I do get creep whether they are up or in a lowered position. It doesn't bother me since I just snug them up. Rob added his since he uses his side links to snug up his Nardi hoe (It is Italian and now sports high heels so... ).

Hey Rob, what does Loretta think about you buying these fancy heels for your Italian hoe? ;D

[quikduk]

Pete:

Here is another thought. Most here have bought or made sub-frames for their 3-point backhoes since the extra support is a very wise addition and will hopefully keep you from breaking your tractor in half should you encounter something relatively large and immovable.

Just look at the stuff Rob has dug up at his place and without his custom sub-frame, I am not sure that Huge Kama would have faired so well. I think that others have done the same thing to theirs and if/when I buy one, I would not hessitate to build a beefy sub-frame for it.

[tuffytractor]

Pete,

I haven't installed the check valves, but Rob has made it a practice on all of his installs. I have always assumed I could just re-snug, but have been leaning toward putting them on. (time and money, are against me on this however) In terms of weight, I haven't really encountered a situation that would test that directly. I load up my box scraper with dirt overflowing and have no problems with adjusting it. I believe many tractors that advertise T&T features only have a cylinder on one side. So, I'm sure that would work fine. Just less angle if you need to cut a gutter and you may have to make a pass going in the same direction to get the angles you want instead of being able to make the adjustments through the cylinders.

This is what I have done instead of building a frame mount for my Back Hoe. Started with a Bradco mount.


Then added one of my extra side-link adjusters to triangulate the whole affair and get more stability.

Larry has urged me throughout my discovery process of how to use my Back Hoe to get it stabilized well, with Rob throwing in for good measure. This is what I have done so far.

Then just hang the top link on the side.

[GuglioLS]

Tim,

I must comment on how nice your TNT came out. I especially like the valve bracket you made. Equally impressive is the clean hose routing. What a great job you can be very proud of.

I see you got that Bradco TPH stiffener triangle installed, looks like you were creative in getting it to fit, I was concerned that it might not, but see you got it. Adding the "left over" lift link turnbuckle between the hoe and the draw bar pin was a cleaver way to add even more support. How is it working out for you that way? I would imagine adding everything like you have has made a big difference when operating your BH.

Looking closely at all your pictures I could not help notice the way you have the BH pump mounted.

I blew up this shot of it:



I have never noticed that extension between the pump and the tractor before. Did you make that? or is it OEM? If you did make that extension I am wondering why? does it have a shaft and bearings on the ends? All the BH pumps I've seen bolt directly to the tractor just above the PTO and use a small slotted coupler between the pump and the drive slot coming out of the tractor.
That extension is interesting, I would like to know more about it.

Larry

[tuffytractor]

Thanks for the compliments, I really appreciate them all the more coming from someone as experienced and observant as you.

But in regard to the stealth picture you blew up, with the pump extension housing, thats not mine. Can't really say where you got that picture from....
Best picture I've got

Does that mean you don't think my install is clean anymore? Because you were actually looking at someone else's? ;D

[GuglioLS]

Hi Tim,
My Bad - I had a bunch of pictures open at the same time, I just now realized the one I posted is not your's. However it still begs the question why that extension is on there.

Does that mean you don't think my install is clean anymore?

Are you kidding? Of course your install is the best!

Larry

[3RRL]

I have to agree...yours is the best top and tilt install I've seen Tim.
It is sooo sweet! Hose routing, fittings and valves are superb! A really sano job.

About the check valves.
I've opted for the most rigid settings for the work I do so I use double pilot operated check valves to keep them in position. That means I don't use float in my side links nor the top link, and couldn't because of those valves.
But that was by choice.
Many guys like the float feature and many have said they don't experience any leak down either ... although some do? So it really depends what you want. If resetting the cylinders is of no problem, then don't use the DPOCV's. If leak down and resetting begins to become annoying, then put one on and you'll notice the difference. But they are not necessary.
The great features of the hydraulic top and tilt are what matter.
Rob-