Power System

[biggkidd]

Hi guys,

As many of you know we just bought a little land out in central Va. Lunenburg county to be exact. We now have almost 36 acres all to our own. It does have a few short comings though. 1) No easement for utilities. Thats bad. The good thing is we will never have a regular utility bill again. That doesn't include communications. IE phone INTERNET etc. The other bad thing is no public access. Which suits me fine. Long as we can build our house and live in piece who cares. We have more of the do it your self mentality anyway. It couldn't be happier if we could be self sufficient I am not sure 100% is possible today but 80% should be. ;D

I am no good at sitting still for long. I had to get out to the shop today, but I made sure not to over do. Unless you call moving around 95 lb. batteries around over doing? LOL





New power system for camp & future house. You just saw a pic of the type batteries I have to use. Here are the two banks.




Eight batteries to a bank with 134 amp hours each. That gives me around a thousand Amp hrs. each bank. ;D


I am going to put the batteries in this storage shed we moved up last weekend.




I see I need to post a better pic of one of the batteries.


See Larry I learned how to take close ups. It was an accident though truth be told.

Speaking of Larry. Thank you for the info about using water pipe for buss bars. You can see I used 3/4 medium wall copper. I couldn't find heavy wall. I did see 1" but the price went from $24 for ten ft. (3/4) to $46 for ten ft.. Money is an object...

I forgot to mention Savannah met a new friend at camp last weekend.



We saw that Dog (Shep we named by the weekends end) back on HWY49. Shep stayed with us all weekend. He is a good looking dog. Smart too. Well trained. I am sure someone is missing him. I hope he's ok.

Well back to our power system. I ordered this Inverter on line earlier today.

www.donrowe.com/inverters/wagan_5000.html

Its not pure sine wave but it should do for our needs. This should give us plenty of power to build the house with. The best part is we wont have to listen to a generator all day. We do have to listen to the battery charger for a few hours each day though.




That ones 70 amps but I think I am going to use some more of the junk I have laying around and build a stronger one. A friend of mine offered me a few more alternators and I have a new 17 horse engine. That should be good for 300 Amps ;D ;D or so. Now I just need to get building though. The faster we can charge the batteries the better. Long as we don't fry them. Once we build the house we will use pure sine wave inverters. They are about 10 times the cost. Thats why we went with the cheep ones while building and for what will become guest quarters.

Heres a shot of the creek now that its not so dry.



Time to look for gold. LOL



Thanks for looking
KIDD

Ps I notice these batteries hold more charge than I am use to. A 12 volt battery with over 13 volts?? Weird Maybe my multi meter is off?

[biggkidd]

Bad News

My new inverter wont be here until next week. So I will have to wait to set up my power system. Well to give it the finishing touches at any rate.

Larry Kidd

[3RRL]

Larry,
It was good to talk to you again today.
I hope you get your stuff in so you get that power system up and running. I know from experience living at my camp without electricity (except a portable generator) is a PITA. It sure would've made a few things easier over the last 4 years.
Rob-

[biggkidd]

Rob,


It was good talking with you also. I notice this AM I am now a family member over there too. LOL I need to do a lot of catch up posting. Take it easy.

Larry Kidd

[baknblack]

biggkidd said:

Bad News
My new inverter wont be here until next week. So I will have to wait to set up my power system. Well to give it the finishing touches at any rate.
Larry Kidd

That's one awesome looking inverter.
I'll let you in on a little secret. 99.9% of your electronics will run fine on an inverter that is not pure sine wave. Just use the cheap ups's with battery backup to protect it from surges and have a good ground. A few power conditioners on your electronics is a lot cheaper than the price of a pure sine wave inverter.

[GuglioLS]

KIDD,

Nice batteries, your power plant is going to work out great, of that I'm sure. The copper pipe buss bar was a good idea on your part. It should save big time vs insulated copper wire. Just don't drop any thing conductive on it if you ever want it see it again. It will vaporize in a flash. Got any black poly pipe? maybe that could be slipped over the buss bar as an insulator.


Larry

[biggkidd]

Baknblack,

That's one awesome looking inverter.


Thank You I sure hope it works. We have been out at camp since Thursday. We had power & everything. But when we came out no one for miles around had power.
I'll let you in on a little secret. 99.9% of your electronics will run fine on an inverter that is not pure sine wave.. Thats good news. So far everything seems to work ok.

Just use the cheap ups's with battery backup to protect it from surges and have a good ground
A few power conditioners on your electronics is a lot cheaper than the price of a pure sine wave inverter.

What exactly is that. I have never heard of that.

Thanks for the comments.

KIDD

[biggkidd]

Hey Larry,

Nice batteries, your power plant is going to work out great, of that I'm sure. The copper pipe buss bar was a good idea on your part. It should save big time vs insulated copper wire. Just don't drop any thing conductive on it if you ever want it see it again. It will vaporize in a flash. Got any black poly pipe? maybe that could be slipped over the buss bar as an insulator.

Thanks Larry. Guys don't let Larry fool you he has been a huge help setting all this up. As far as covering the buss bar goes I am going to enclose the batteries and vent them to the outside.

We spent the weekend at camp and I am going back this week. But I win the fool of the year award for forgetting the camera this weekend. DOH

Thanks for all the comments.

KIDD

[baknblack]

biggkidd said:

What exactly is that. I have never heard of that.
KIDD

If you go in a computer store , ask to see a UPS ( uninterruptable power supply). They are power conditioner/battery backup for computers or anything else you want to use em on. They smooth out ripples and surges and provide good clean power to your electronics.

[biggkidd]

baknblack said:

biggkidd said:

What exactly is that. I have never heard of that.
KIDD

If you go in a computer store , ask to see a UPS ( uninterruptable power supply). They are power conditioner/battery backup for computers or anything else you want to use em on. They smooth out ripples and surges and provide good clean power to your electronics.

OK Thanks I will have to check into that for a few things.

KIDD

[biggkidd]

Update:

Heres where I left off this weekend. I got what is becoming the power shed level. I use that term vary loosely. Since I actually set the back 1.5 to 2 inches higher than the front. I did this because I am putting all those batteries back there. I know it will settle some I will get some pics later as I forgot the camera. Next after the building was level I had to tote the batteries in. OOF 95 lbs each. I wish the truck hadn't been stuck in the mud with the trailer hooked up. So I had to carry them 20 or so feet further than I had planned. I set 8 of them on the floor at the back wall. Then I hooked the copper buss bar (3/4water pipe). I also hooked 2 home made 1/0 cables on each end battery. I used an antioxidant paste on all of the connections. These are to hook the bottom row of batteries to the top row. Then I built a shelf out of 2x4s over the first row. Next to lug the other 8 batteries in. Thats where I left this off to move on to other things. All the batteries are in place with the top row waiting to be hooked up when I have the inverter in hand.

On another note the battery charger I built out of an alternator and a 5.5 hp engine is doing well. We can run our 6 6V batteries for 20 hours and charge them up in less than 4 hours. The cost for this power is an ongoing bill though. I have figured out we are paying around 2.50 or 3.00 dollars a day for the pleasure of electricity. We are burning a little less than a gallon of gas a day. ;D ;D As our power draw increases our gas consumption will to. But when I build a bigger charger it will end up about the same or a little less than we pay the power company now.

I also have been watching the draw on the batteries over the weekend and found they would start off after a charge at almost 13 volts and never dropped below 12 volts. Now you have to realize we arnt using that much power. Here whats running. 1 12 v fan for the heater, 1 night light for the girls, 1 dorm style fridge, 3 25watt compact fluorescent lights, 1 radio, and a very little of the microwave. We also use a 5 gal shop vac to blow up the air mattresses and general cleaning. I think thats all the stuff we have been using.

Thanks again Larry for all your help with your vast array of electrical knowledge.

KIDD

[biggkidd]

Guys,

I went today and got some more stuff for the power system. I now have just about everything needed to get going. Just waiting on the UPS man to deliver the inverter.

I picked up 100' of 6666 aluminum service cable. 50' is going to be the 120V AC power and 50' for the 12 V DC. I am going to tie the DC strands in twos to double the carrying capacity. I still have to go back and get a ground rod. It seems I am always for getting something. But I did remember the fuses for the DC side and there is already a breaker box for the AC. I also got 2 more 12 volt fans for the heater. Camp is really starting to come together.

I will post pics and tell the tale soon as I get everything all hooked up. Now if I can just find my brain and figure out how to engage it.

I also went to HF to get their 45 Watt solar kit but they were out so I got a rain check. They are on sale for $200 right now. While I was there I did get a few things for one I got an amp gage to hook into my charger. I also got a cut off switch for the 12 V DC going into the camper. I tried to find a 12 volt fuse block but haven't had any luck yet. I did get a couple 100 amp fuses for the DC side of things. Damn wheres that UPS man. Chomping at the bit ready to go.

Have a good one.
KIDD

KIDD

[Ronmar]

Most things run pretty well on modified sinewave inverters. The microwave and some inductive loads such as power tool motors won't be as happy with it as they get a major portion of their energy from the peak of the sinewave, which is basically flat in a modified sine wave.

Unfortunately something I noticed with your setup is that it does not appear to be fused. Each parallel leg in a battery feed circuit should be individually fused where it meets the bussbar. Batteries can and do short. If one of yours does, it will draw power from all the other batteries in that parallel circuit, just as if you dropped a pipe across the buss bars... There should be a fuse where the buss bar feeds the inverter that can just handle the max projected load/draw of the inverter, and each parallel battery should have a fuse just large enough to pass that batterys expected max draw, or in the case of 8 parallel batteries, each battery fuse should be 1/8 the size of the main fuse. That way if a battery shorts, it will disconnect itself before it can use the energy from the other 7 batteries to melt down and starts a fire...

I also wouldn't have them strapped together untill they are in a box with a top, and LOCKED away from anyone or thing who could get access to them. I see your childs toy in the background of the strapped batteries and I get the willies. I understand that this was probably in your garage where you worked out the bussbars, but as I know them(batteries) these things can BITE. It looks perfectly harmless untill something gets shorted, then it is death on a stick with a large dose of destruction rolled in for good measure. I can easilly weld 1/4-3/8" plate with a pair of 12V batteries. You have joined 8 of them per bank...

Good Luck

Ron

[stumpy]

biggkidd: Can you post a picture or explain how you use copper water pipe as bus bar for your battery banks? How do you attach the pipe to the battery terminals? Thanks.

Tom

[biggkidd]

Small Update:

To poopt to post much now. I just wanted to respond to Ron and Tom.


Ron,

Thanks for the info about fusing the batteries. I truly didn't know about that. So very good looking out on your part. I know the inverter is fused inside, and the directions don't tell you you need to fuse the battery(s). I have no idea what size fuses I would need do you have any idea? Thanks for looking you may have just saved my life.

You were right about my daughters toy I was just getting things together out in the garage. My kids are not allowed in there. My Savannah's ATV was charging thats why it was in there.

Tom,

If you look at the third picture in the first post you can see the water pipe buss bars. I made them out of copper 3/4" heavy walled pipe. I pressed them out on my shop press. After that I found I wanted 8" between each hole for connection and drilled them out.
Thanks for posting.

Guys,

I will try and really update this thread next week or later tonight if I catch my 2nd wind. Its back out to the country tomorrow in hopes of getting my trailer and tractor out of there (sun) for work next week. As it is I barely made it out today its rained a lot in the last few days with a little snow mixed in last night.

Thanks you guys.

KIDD