Water from a creek.

[biggkidd]

We started installing a water line this weekend. We had temporary water from a smaller creek closer to camp. But thats dried up now. Ok so heres the story. We have a creek (Big Creek) about 700 or so feet from our camp.

So first we needed as strait and easy as possible trail from the creek to camp.









We cleared about 300 feet of trail going around the bigger trees. We are using the little craftsman tractor as you see because its easier to jump on and go and with the little trailer carries more IE chainsaws gas oil water, and Savannah & Nickole. Kyrstin was at my moms this weekend. About 30 min before dark Sat. I started trenching.









You can see some rub marks on the trees where it was a tad tight going through the trail. ;D Thats all we got done Friday & Saturday. Other than putting an AC unit in the camper. Yes we ran it off the battery bank. Its been high 90's and low 100's here with high humidity.

Sunday we started again at daylight. Got another 200 ft. of trench dug.













We are doing as much as we can with the back hoe but at least 150+ feet are going to have to be hand dug just to steep. The tractor looses oil pressure.

But that was our weekend. I'll post more about it as we go along. Still trying to decide weather to run wire from the power shed or to set up an independent power system. Can anyone tell me what size wire to use to run the pump 8 amp load at 120V figure 800 foot max. The other option is to use that 1200W inverter and batteries I already have. The biggest problem with this is the amount of space I will have to clear for the solar panels.

One last thing I would like to brag on the LW-7 Hoe. It kicks butt. This is the first time I used it for anything much more than stumps. I dug around 200ft. of trench in about 8 hours 5 in the am gave it an hour to cool off and another 3 hours. The trench is an average 24" deep some a bit deeper when I would get carried away. I know a lot of people hate their LW7 but I love mine. If I was to change it I think first I would run a cooler on it them maybe help out the left & right swing. At 1600 RPM its strong and fast and can run all day. At 1800 its stronger and faster but overheats. Just remembered I need to tighten up all the little nuts on the controls I noticed they were loose as we were leaving.

A very worn out.
Larry Kidd

[red]

Larry- just think how worn out you'll be when you dig that last section by hand; ugh! Can you reverse the machine (dig in different direction) so oil pressure isn't an issue? An 800 ft run will mean a big voltage drop and require a much larger size wire. When I ran my water line from the main I hand padded my line to keep the rocks off it. The ulitity companies use sand to protect their lines before backfilling. -Ed

[3RRL]

Larry first...can you say PAID FOR ITSELF over and over?
Man, you have to be happy you got all that work done with you tractor and backhoe. I know what you mean about loving your backhoe and some hating theirs. I pretty much love the stuff I have, since I have it and have to work with it. That's all there is to it. It could sure be worse, right? I am a big believer in using what you got or making/modifying to suit your needs.
BTW, your kids are adorable.
One thing that strikes me every time I see photos of your place is how dense the forest is. Mine is open and sparse and yours is like a North American Jungle. I'll bet there's tons of wildlife around and I can see why. Which reminds me, be sure to plan some kind of fire break ... I don't know if you suffer from fires out there as much as we do out here, but be careful.
Nice to see all that progress you guys are making.
Rob-

[quikduk]

Excellent work Larry. That hoe has paid for itself a few times over now. Re: the cooling issue, you could get a large Hayden oil cooler (or HD trans cooler from a junk yard), add an electric 12V fan to move air through it and have it plumbed into your return line with another filter. It would drop your fluid temps quite a bit.

I could sure use one at home but will probably rent one when I get to THAT project.

Keep up the good work!

Ken

[biggkidd]

Jun 9, 2008 11:57:26 GMT -5 red said:

Larry- just think how worn out you'll be when you dig that last section by hand; ugh! Can you reverse the machine (dig in different direction) so oil pressure isn't an issue? An 800 ft run will mean a big voltage drop and require a much larger size wire. When I ran my water line from the main I hand padded my line to keep the rocks off it. The ulitity companies use sand to protect their lines before backfilling. -Ed

Hi Ed,

If I turn the tractor around then it pulls itself down the hill. Most or all of the dirt out of the trench looks good surprisingly I haven't found any rock yet. So I guess I'll just cover it back with the dirt that came out.

Thanks
Larry

[biggkidd]

Jun 9, 2008 12:19:56 GMT -5 3RRL said:

Larry first...can you say PAID FOR ITSELF over and over?
Man, you have to be happy you got all that work done with you tractor and backhoe. I know what you mean about loving your backhoe and some hating theirs. I pretty much love the stuff I have, since I have it and have to work with it. That's all there is to it. It could sure be worse, right? I am a big believer in using what you got or making/modifying to suit your needs.
BTW, your kids are adorable.
One thing that strikes me every time I see photos of your place is how dense the forest is. Mine is open and sparse and yours is like a North American Jungle. I'll bet there's tons of wildlife around and I can see why. Which reminds me, be sure to plan some kind of fire break ... I don't know if you suffer from fires out there as much as we do out here, but be careful.
Nice to see all that progress you guys are making.
Rob-

Rob,

I guess you could say its paid for itself by now. What with all the trees I have dug out and now this water line. I agree with your principal of use what you have and make it work, often works better that the right tool for the job.
BTW, your kids are adorable. Thanks I tell you its a lot easier when we just have Savannah. With the two of them together they need a full time ref.

Your right about the North American jungle thats a great description of our place. Nickole saw a Black Bear last week and we both saw a huge coon. Its so dense we see more signs of animals than the animals themselves. But we are working on clearing/cleaning up the joint. We don't have to many problems with fire for the most part but thats just another reason I want a good water source. Far as a fire break goes. I would like to have Oak or Maples around the house when we build then a good size clearing then more trees. I want the shade on the house in the summer. The humidity is killer here and a nice shady spot helps a lot. Thanks for all the kind comments. I haven't had the energy to keep up to date with all thats been going on. But I will try to do better.

Larry

[biggkidd]

Jun 9, 2008 14:04:03 GMT -5 quikduk said:

Excellent work Larry. That hoe has paid for itself a few times over now. Re: the cooling issue, you could get a large Hayden oil cooler (or HD trans cooler from a junk yard), add an electric 12V fan to move air through it and have it plumbed into your return line with another filter. It would drop your fluid temps quite a bit.

I could sure use one at home but will probably rent one when I get to THAT project.

Keep up the good work!

Ken

Thanks Ken

You and I are thinking along the same line. Finding a good place to mount it is the hard part. Safe from debris yet not to cook the operator is looking hard to find. The only problem with adding a fan is running the wiring. Keeping it out of harms way seems like it may be a bit of a challenge.

BTW Hows your grapple coming?
Thanks
Larry

[GuglioLS]

Larry,

That some serious trenching 800' through the thick woods plus all those roots - OMG your crazy. OK 800 feet of wire to run a pump, got any 220 volt? of just 120? how many amps for the pump? One possibility is to use a step up transformer to get high voltage and low current (ideal for long runs), then step down the voltage at the other end.

Another idea is to use 3 conductor, 12 ga direct burial cable,@ 120 VAC to a battery charger, create a small power inverter system running off batteries just like your running now, but on a smaller scale to run only the pump when it's needed. 800 feet of 00 wire would cost a fortune.

Your place is nice, I love all those trees, but you can keep the humidity.

Larry

[red]

Larry,
I remember Rob using some kinda cable/winch for doing work on his extreme slopes. Also on the Chinese Tractor Owner Association site Halifax has a thread on pumping drinking water- lots of good ideas
ctoa.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1897&start=0
(post #22) you may also want to run some plastic conduit in the trench for future use as well. -Ed

[linus69]

Kidd, the best way to do that power run is what Larry suggested, using a tramsformer to step up on the source end and another to step down on the creek end. The voltage drop of an 800ft run like that would just be too much at low voltage to be practical.

Paul

[biggkidd]

Wow Lots of good info guys. Thanks.

We have 12V DC and 120V AC. The pump draws 6 or 8 amps at 120v AC. I cant remember which one I bought. I do have another set of batteries and another small inverter that can run it. It just means a lot more clearing for the solar panels to get full sun.

OMG I'm Crazy isn't that the pot calling the kettle black Larry? LOL

Ed thanks for the link to Halifax's post about the same thing.

We all know I am electrically challenged. But I was wondering how those transformers would work on a modified sine wave inverter?

So far it sounds like setting up a second power system is my best bet.

Larry If 12 gage would handle a battery charger why couldn't I run the pump off of it?

Thanks Guys I'll try and check back tonight

Thanks
Larry Kidd

[Ronmar]

How permanent is this going to be? Are you going to build here someday? I would think at some point you will need a well. I personally am not a big fan of using surface water, you are going to have to treat it for bacteria(IR radiation or chlorine) as well as filter it from everything that has the potential to contaminate it. Then there is the possible chemical contamination from whatever lives, dumps or sprays upstream...

If this is not a permanent system, why not skip the wire. Put a holding tank at the camp end with a float valve. At the creek end, put a solar panel and batteries and a DC pump with a pressure switch set just a little higher than what the normal pumping pressure runs at. Whenever the float switch in the tank is open, the pressure drops enough for the battery operated pump to kick on and refill the camp holding tank.

At the camp end, you can have a 120V pressure pump in the holding tank to pressurize the treatment and water system with a short low loss power run from your power source.

You said it is a 700' pipeline run. How far vertically up or down is it from this creek to your campsite? What size pipe were you thinking of using?

If it was me, instead of wiring 700+ feet to feed a pump(current hungry application), and if a well was in the future anyway, I would probably bite the bullit on a well first.

Ron

[biggkidd]

Hey Ron,

Yes it is a permanent thing we are going to move here soon I hope.

Ok heres the deal. We don't have a lot of bucks to work with and a well cost big bucks. The water comes locally not far up stream from us. The creek is spring fed from what I am told. Very clean and clear the locals drink it strait from the creek bank. Even if we do end up with a well this will still get used for crops and things. The creek is around 700ft. I say around because I haven't finished the path yet. Not only are we looking for the straitest most direct route but the easiest for us to dig with the least amount of hand work. Its about 60 to 70 feet of rise. I still haven't gotten enough cleared to get an accurate read on it. With the new water filter purifiers out today I think this will be ok for us. The other thing or plus for putting a separate power station down at the creek is we also plan to build a deck and gazebo down there. The big problem is this will require a large clearing for the solar panels.

Thanks.
Larry

[Ronmar]

How big of a pipe? With that number, and the others you have provided, I have some lookup tables that show loss of head. from that you can calculate how much HP you will need to do this for a given GPM.

Ron

[halifax]

Hey Biggkid,
I must have missed this thread, I've been looking for a discussion about this. You peaked my interest since I'm looking to pump water from my creek to our cabin. My problems: aprox 400 feet of distance, 90 feet of head, too many trees to use a solar pump at the creek, and I only have 90 watts solar at 12V from 2 batteries. Larger solar panels cost 2 arms, a couple of legs, and my dog.

To help out on your question of cable. It gonna cost you. If you have a choice, use higher voltage until you get to the pump, then step it down. Heres a link to a wire loss table, given the amp, volt. www.windsun.com/Hardware/Wire_Table.htm (Might have to copy, paste) Thats for a 5% loss, with a NEC safety figured in. So you will loose 6V, not a big deal with 120V, BIG deal with 24V or 12V.
I'll check this thread more often, I got used to only looking at the Jinma section.

Aubrey