Koyker Cylinder Upgrade

[GuglioLS]

The Koyker 160 FEL I got with my Jinma 354 came with 1.75" ID hydraulic cylinders. After using the FEL quite a bit over the last four years I finally decided to upgrade to 2" ID so as to give it more "umph". With 1.75" cylinders, the break out force is..., well less that ideal, for instance when digging into virgin soil with the tooth bar, after munching into a good bite of soil, there was never enough force to break out and lift the bucket, I had to stop, back up a bit then lift. Needless to say that is very frustrating. I searched hi and low for just the right cylinder that would fit. I came up empty handed. Koyker uses a custom cylinder and none like it are to be had off the shelf. Koyker wanted over a grand for four 2" cylinders , that's totally ridiculous. I finally settled on some close match cylinders from surplus center. They had to be modified to fit, and at 79.99 each, the savings is $680 over what Koyker wanted.

Some pics of the cylinders are below. There are 6 cylinders, 4 are for the Jinma FEL and two are for another project I have lined up for my old 1953 Ford. Of course the two Red cylinders need to be painted black and two of the black cylinders need to be painted red

First was to chop off the base end cross tube because:
1. The cross tube is too long, and
2. It needs to be re-orientated 90* to align the ports with the existing hydraulic lines and fittings.

The chop saw is from Harbor Freight (Were else? ;D) I bought it for Esther to give to me last Christmas



After the chop saw treatment on the base end cross tubes, the cross tube ends were cut off on the band saw. The rems will be used on another project. In the lathe the ends were squared up and beveled to fit as the OD of the new cross tubes are 2" OD as opposed the the 1.5" OD of the OEM cylinders.




Larry

[GuglioLS]

Next was to cut off the ends of the rod end cross tubes to get the width needed to fit the FEL. This was done on the band saw. I saved allot of time by not have to cut the cross tube completely off the cylinder rod end. Another thing that had to be done was fit some bushings because the cross tube ID is 1.25" and need to be bushed down to 1" to fit the OEM pins. The bushings are 1.25" X 1"

I drilled and taped the cross tube for a 1/4-20 set screw, then put a dimple in the bushing to keep it from rotating, the opposing side of the bushing was drilled out to align with the OEM Zerk grease fitting.




With the bushings for the rod end inserted and set screwed in place, it was time to mill a flat for a spacer on the base end cross tubes. That was done to get the clearance needed for the larger width cylinder and to get the correct cylinder closed center spacing. The spacer is a 3/8 x 3/8 x 1.5 key from a Harbor Freight shaft key assortment kit, it's size was perfect.



Larry

[GuglioLS]

After MIG welding and letting them cool off, the cylinders were cleaned, primed and painted.



The center pic is a comparison of the Koyker cylinder and the ones customized to fit.



It doesn't look like that much of a big deal, but the push force of the 1.75" ID OEM cylinder @ 2300 PSI is : 5529 pounds. The push force of the 2.0" ID cylinders @ 2300 PSI is 7222 pounds. That represents an improvement of 1693 pounds per cylinder. I'm not sure of the exact improvement of break out force at the bucket, but it has made all the difference in the world for me.

Next is to modify two more cylinders to upgrade the bucket cylinders. Perhaps I'll get to that next weekend after I help a neighbor dig out a stump with the hoe.

Larry

[3RRL]

Hi Larry,
Another great improvement with excellent documentation as usual.
It may not seem like a big improvement, but it works out to 30% more power per cylinder! That's quite a lot to me regardless how it works out in break out force. How does that much power affect your fel Larry? Are you concerned at all that the fel arms/ frame work can hold up to the larger cylinders? I believe the larger 2" diameter ones were an optional size on my Koyker so it should be alright. I do know this, that when I am at full capacity with my Koyker 195, I can hear the creaking and groaning. I have the 1.75 cylinders on it. On the other hand, I guess I can't but any more stuff in the existing bucket, so that would not change any way.

I would love to do what you did though. Having that little extra power would really come in handy for my fel projects. Nice machine work Larry. Very well thought out and executed.
Rob-

[red]

Larry- Nice work amazing how you come up with all these ideas BTW are you and Rob related? Definitely the same gene pool! -Ed

[bradblazer]

Very nice work Larry!
I'll estimate your lift force 19.7" from the pin goes up from 1100lbs to 1500lbs and your 19.7" breakout goes up from 2140 to 2880lbs.

I'll also estimate that your loader has no trouble handling the increase in force from 2" cylinders.

Good looking welds comrade! It's always a trick to align the ends. Are those cat 2-3 toplink bushings?

[GuglioLS]

Thanks guys,

Rob - Just like your's and Brad's 195, the 2" cylinders are an option for my Koyker 160 so it should handle it without any problems. Are you sure yours has 1.75" cylinders? I would have thought since your bucket is at least 6 foot wide with dual grapples and a tooth bar, it would at least have 2" or larger cylinders. I think at one time you alluded to the capacity of your bucket to be somewhere around a cubic yard. Brad what size cylinders are on your 195?

Ed - : "BTW are you and Rob related?" LOL Rob's my rich older brother (I'm his poor younger one)

May 20, 2009 16:38:46 GMT -5 bradblazer said:

Very nice work Larry!
I'll estimate your lift force 19.7" from the pin goes up from 1100lbs to 1500lbs and your 19.7" breakout goes up from 2140 to 2880lbs.

Brad your "estimates" amaze me, how you come up with those numbers I'll never know. BTW Koyker states the Breakout force with 2" cylinders is 2900 pounds so you only missed it by 20#. Damn your good.

Are the sarcastic rolling eyes a good or bad thing?

.......................

May 20, 2009 16:38:46 GMT -5 bradblazer said:

Good looking welds comrade! It's always a trick to align the ends. Are those cat 2-3 toplink bushings?

Thanks comrade! yep that H/F Russian MIG does a decent job. As you and anyone else who welds knows getting a decent looking and structurally sound weld around a circle is a bit of a challenge. I know you and Rob are consistent at pulling off those magical welds. My goal was to get mine at least half as good as the ones I have seen you and Rob pull off. You guessed it on the bushings, they are cat 2-3, did you need some? I've got a drawer full and could spare a few.

Thanks millions guys,

Larry

[bradblazer]

LOL I looked up the manual for your loader at koykermfg.com and those were the numbers.
Now you know.

[quikduk]

Larry,

That is a great job. I too have wondered if upping the size would be possible on the Chinese ZL-30 loader as it is modelled "closely" after the Koyker 160.

It is waaaayyyy down on my list ATM due to County cutbacks but I will start measuring mine and see how they stack up to your existing ones the next time I service Doghouse.

I too have experienced the digging problem with the toothbar. Whether it be dirt or wet snow, you are right that after you take a big bite, you have to back up to lift the bucket or curl it. I was always curious if the cyl. size was the issue.

Let us know if it makes a difference when all 4 are replaced. Your comment re: these two making all the difference...am I correct in assuming that you have tried them out and you no longer need to back up to lift a full bucket?

BFN

[quikduk]

OAN, this is why when I made my T&T, I opted for 2" dia. cylinders rather than the 1-1/2" dia. that all of the hyd. shops told me to use. I would rather have too much strength than not enough...providing of course that I don't break things like Rob with those 4" dia. monster side link cylinders. ;D

[3RRL]

Of course you're right Larry.
I just measured my Koyker cylinders and they are 2-5/8 OD with 1-1/4 rods.
Ken, my side links are 3-7/8 OD with 1-3/4 rods. I got that size because I wanted the large diameter rod in them. I had bent the OEM side links.
Rob-

[GuglioLS]

May 21, 2009 9:12:27 GMT -5 bradblazer said:

LOL I looked up the manual for your loader at koykermfg.com and those were the numbers.
Now you know.

Thanks for doing that Brad, obviously I was too lazy to do that myself

May 21, 2009 14:28:47 GMT -5 quikduk said:

SNIP..............am I correct in assuming that you have tried them out and you no longer need to back up to lift a full bucket?
BFN

Thanks Ken, I gave them a short workout, the larger cylinders installed on the lift appear to have the breakout force I was hoping for. Once I get a little more stick time I'll report back with a better assessment. The bucket cylinders I got from surplus center are 2.25" ID so the improvement should be much more dramatic than the step up from 1.75 to 2.0 on the lift.

May 21, 2009 21:30:01 GMT -5 3RRL said:

Of course you're right Larry.
I just measured my Koyker cylinders and they are 2-5/8 OD with 1-1/4 rods...................snip.
Rob-

Rob,
I kind of figured that much. I think a 1.75 cylinder would have barely lifted the FEL on a 195 let alone a cubic yard of material + dual grapples with tooth bar.

I just measured the OD of the 1.75" id Koyker cylinders @ 2.125". That gives it a .1875" (3/16") wall thickness.

Assuming your cylinders have the same wall thickness that makes your 2-5/8" OD cylinders come in at 2.25" ID. As I mentioned above, I picked up two 2.25" ID cylinders to replace the 1.75" ones for the bucket dump / retract action. With the 320 pump I upgraded to, flow rate and cylinder speed should be just about right.

Larry

[bracabric]

What can one say Larry ? another superb piece of work, you do the maths, design and steel work with aplomb , I'm damned if I can figure out where you find the time what with you having extra work in a shortage and all. I have decided that in the next life I am going to come back as apprentice to you and Rob with maybe some input from Brad, Ken et al and maybe then I will be able to tie my own shoe laces !!
Dick (green with envy)

[GuglioLS]

Thanks for the flattering comments Dick, your all too generous. If you have a choice in your second life, come back as Rob, he's the rich handsome one ! ;D

The last phase of this project is upgrading the bucket cylinders from 1.75" to 2.25". Again the OEM cylinders are odd ball so I had to again modify some standard odd ball cylinders from surplus center to fit.

Starting with the base end milling off about 1/4" of an inch on each side, then inserting a store bought cat 2 to cat 3 bushing to get the ID from 1.25" down to 1.0". After that, the rod end cross tube was milled down about .19" to get it the correct width to fit between the bucket brackets. Milling was the only option as I could not shave that small amount off in the band saw. Again a bushing was needed, this time a piece of 1.25" OD x .125" wall DOM (Drawn over mandrel a.k.a. seamless tubing) was used as there are no commercially available bushing long enough for what I needed. The last pic shows the two base ends completed with the # 8 SAE ORB x # 6 JIC fittings installed. For whatever reason there were no grease Zerk's installed on either end on these cylinders, so I has to drill, tap and install those too. Perhaps that's why these are surplus cylinders at a discount price?




Larry

[GuglioLS]

The first pic in this series is the rod end completed with it's respective hydraulic adapter fittings, bushings and grease fittings. Second pic is a comparison of the OEM cylinders and my custom ones. OEM cylinder is 1.75" ID, rod dia is 1.0" the new cylinders are 2.25" ID and rod dia of 1.375". Center pic shows I'm able to get the same dump angle, forth on the right shows the increase of curl achieved over OEM as shown in the last pic which is a pic prior to these four cylinder upgrades.



Another really nice thing about this upgrade is that no OEM hoses or fittings had to be modified or changed Everything was able to be hooked up right where it was taken off. This helped to further keep costs in line with my overall budget to get this accomplished. ;D

Larry