GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
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Post by GuglioLS on Feb 18, 2008 9:19:23 GMT -5
OK experts, here are my Fuel problems on a Jinma 354 TY395 E-3 engine - When I first start my engine, there is no throttle response. The engine always starts right up no problem, even in sub zero temps it has always fired right up. The issue is it will not respond to throttle commands - it just sits there and idles. This issue was always present since I first got my tractor about 3 years ago. At first, it only took 30 to 60 seconds before the injector would respond to throttle commands, That was something I could live with. But over the years it has taken longer and longer for it to rev up. Now it's at he point where it takes 15 to 20 minutes to respond. Another issue is when it finally does respond, the governor response was very sluggish, for instance when traveling along flat ground, then climbing a hill, the RPM's would bog down to the point of almost stalling, I had to manually step on the fuel pedal to keep the revs up. That issue has also progressively grown worse over the years. This is driving me nuts. Here is a video with sound to illustrate what I am talking about - Now check this out - I removed a screw to gain access to the fuel rack and was able to slide the rack back and forth- Over the years I have talked to dealers and owners about this, some of them report the issue som do not, I have also read on other forums where owners have reported the problem as well. The commonality is limited to the E3 engine with the 3PL104 injector pump. Larry
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Post by mariner on Feb 18, 2008 9:32:34 GMT -5
Hi Larry,
I don't know if this post was directly related to your problem, but I remember reading where someone had a similar situation. I believe the remedy was to clean and flush the internals of the fuel pump and governor. Seems the balls in the governor were sticky/sticking and the response was less than adequate. I believe diesel fuel was put in the fuel pump to clean it up. That did help but don't know if it was the cure.
As I say, I only remember reading about it so the actual cleaning agent may be wrong. Worth checking out maybe - I think I read about it on CTOA,
mariner
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dougw
CTW Member
Posts: 33
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Post by dougw on Feb 18, 2008 10:05:01 GMT -5
Im no expert, but after seeing the workings on the inside of mine, the first thing that comes to mind is the spring that loads the pressure on the ball bearings, and /or sticky mechanism.
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Post by baknblack on Feb 18, 2008 10:05:19 GMT -5
That's interesting. Sure acts like the governor is sticking.
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Post by harryg on Feb 18, 2008 14:11:46 GMT -5
That's interesting. Sure acts like the governor is sticking. I concur. Definitely sounds like something in the governor mechanism is sticking.
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3RRL
Administrator
Huge Kama
Posts: 2,027
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Post by 3RRL on Feb 18, 2008 14:29:00 GMT -5
I remember you talking to me about that problem and I saw it when I visited you. It's when the tractor is cold when it won't respond to throttle right? Then when it warms up, it works fine. Sounds like whatever lubrication is on the rack is too thick. Does the rack get lubricated by the injector pump oil, or is it isolated? Is there a way to remove the rack and clean with kerosene or gas? Then re-lube with gun oil or 3in1 oil?
The spring seems to work or the rack would remain in the position you moved it to when using the screw driver to move it. Perhaps just not strong enough when using the throttle when cold?
Diesel does not do a very good job of de-greasing, so perhaps a good cleaning with another type of solvent would help. If there is no connection to the injector pump oil, consider graphite lubricant or some Lubriplate. I don't know if that's the case or not?
I've read when hunting in extreme cold, sometimes gun oil would be too thick, so they recommended using graphite for lubricant. Rob-
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Post by harryg on Feb 18, 2008 15:38:00 GMT -5
I'm just wondering how ATF (auto trans fluid) would do. It has excellent viscosity and decent lubrication properties.
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GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
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Post by GuglioLS on Feb 18, 2008 23:06:55 GMT -5
Wow you guys are all over this - thanks for the feedback. Yea something is sticking, out of adjustment or the damn thing is designed to do what it's doing. This injector has no balls, it's got cubes I have a spare injector that Scott (FlyHiFlyLo)got for me (thanks Scott) - it's brand new and does the same thing Not sure exactly what the technical term for this is, but here are some pics of what I will call the "governor regulator"? The insides of this thing are clean as a whistle so being dirty or sticky is not the issue. Rob mentioned lubrication and the rack. Everything is lubed by the pump oil. Since new I have changed the oil in this thing six or seven times. I tried 30 WT non detergent motor oil, 30 WT compressor oil,10W40 motor oil, 5W20 motor oil, 3in1 oil. I even tried under filling and over filling - no change. Here is a video of how smooth the fuel metering rack is - Larry
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Post by mariner on Feb 18, 2008 23:43:34 GMT -5
Hi Larry, If it doesn't get any worse with use, it willmost likely loosen up with use It seems like something then, must be binding/dragging just a touch. Short of using jewellers rouge, I don't know what else to recommend without taking it apart completely. What else do you think it might be? mariner
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GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
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Post by GuglioLS on Feb 19, 2008 1:18:30 GMT -5
What else do you think it might be?Mariner, That's the million dollar question. So far I have been able to determine the throttle lever does not move the rack when the injector is cold but the rack does move when it's warm. Hot or cold, the fuel kill lever always moves the rack to the closed position. there has got to be a temperature sensitive spring somewhere in the Governor mechanism preventing the rack from allowing more fuel. Further study on how all that works in in order. There are several adjustments in various places and three or four springs. I might have to take a chance and start tweaking things to see what the effect is. This is very strange indeed. And not having a manual describing the theory of operation is no help. The difficulty has got to be somewhere in the mechanism pictured below, because it's the only thing attached to the fuel metering rod (rack) Here's what happens when the kill lever is actuated - there are two adjustment screws and springs on the end of this thing - This is very difficult, because I cant see what is really happening inside when it's all put together. If by some miracle I figure this darn thing out, Maybe this thread will turn out to be the injector manual? or just a waist of time Larry
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GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
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Post by GuglioLS on Feb 19, 2008 1:32:27 GMT -5
This is the throttle lever action, It pushes a spring up against the assembly pictured above, which in turn is supposed to open the fuel rack. What is driving me nuts is why the rack is not opening when cold. WTF is the deal here? Larry
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Post by baknblack on Feb 19, 2008 7:52:58 GMT -5
I was doing a little research yesterday. Just comparing what photos I could locate.
These injector pumps look an awful lot like a perkins design. Maybe if you could locate some info on the perkins pumps?
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red
CTW Advanced Member
Posts: 306
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Post by red on Feb 19, 2008 9:33:35 GMT -5
Larry- WTF is an excellent way to describe it! I have seen solnoid plungers bind just like the rod did in your video and it took me awhile to find it could it would only happen when the solnoid got hot enough. Also found that if I rotated the plunger 180 degrees I could get the equipment to work until I got a new solnoid assembly. Also found that if I installed a thin plastic washer on the solnoid plunger that it worked better. While your problem is strictly mechanical and not electrical, temp does affect performance. Could the rod be out of round? Or too tight? -Ed
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3RRL
Administrator
Huge Kama
Posts: 2,027
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Post by 3RRL on Feb 19, 2008 11:57:51 GMT -5
What moves the rack then? Is it vacuum or something? I did not see any mechanical spring or other mechanism attached from the accelerator to the rack to move it. How does it move when the pump heats up to temp?
Investigate that and it might lead you to the source. Rob-
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Post by baknblack on Feb 19, 2008 12:22:33 GMT -5
I just ran across this. Does it pertain? Sounds like yours may work in reverse but, same principle.
Quote: What we have is a spring pulling the fuel rack open from one side, and a mechanical governor that attempts to pull the fuel rack closed from the other. When the load is constant, the spring and governor reach equilibrium, and the speed remains constant. Increase the spring pressure, and the governor and spring will work to equalize and maintain a new and higher RPM, decrease the spring pressure, and the two will equalize at a lower RPM.
WE can change out springs for longer, shorter, stronger or weaker to tune the sensitivity and response of the governor to our liking.
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