|
Post by mariner on Feb 19, 2008 19:46:53 GMT -5
Hey Larry, Seems you have a bit of a challenge there. I am not familiar with what you have there - I can't view the video as I am on dialup and don't have the patience to wait for it to load fully I bet when you find the problem the fix will end up being something really simple. Maybe the fuel rod goes through a brass guide bush or similar, which when cold is a tight fit and when warm, allows proper operation. Got to be something equally as annoying for you Hope you manage to get it sorted out soon - rather than making it to four years ;D ;D ;D Cheers mariner
|
|
|
Post by mariner on Feb 19, 2008 22:42:41 GMT -5
Larry,
Is this governor thing completely mechanical (it looks like it is) or is there a small hydraulic component to it. I was thinking an oil passage getting blocked with cold oil, but once warmed the oil being thin enough to do its work - something like a servo piston? I am just bouncing ideas around here - sorry.
mariner
|
|
GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
|
Post by GuglioLS on Feb 20, 2008 1:42:00 GMT -5
What moves the rack then? Is it vacuum or something? I did not see any mechanical spring or other mechanism attached from the accelerator to the rack to move it. How does it move when the pump heats up to temp? Investigate that and it might lead you to the source. Rob- Rob - The rack is attached to a lever. The throttle lever pushes a spring against another spring loaded pivoting arm. That spring loaded pivoting arm seems to tie together the throttle, Rotating flywheel (governor) and Kill lever. Red - what you saw "binding" in the video was just a spring. It was not binding at all, it just happened to get caught on the top edge of the post it slides on. Not a problem when assembled. Dwayne, Yea, form what I have been able to see, it functions exactly like what you found. The rod on the left is the fuel rack, the lever attached to it on the right is connected to a pivoting lever which is controlled by the Flywheel, Throttle lever and kill lever. There are all kinds of stuff in there too hard to see in a picture. Mariner - " I can't view the video as I am on dialup" No such thing as high speed internet up north? Is BC some third world Provence of Canada? LOL. Hope you manage to get it sorted out soon - rather than making it to four years No joke, I've put up with this crap too long already. I finally decided enough is enough. That's why I bought that other injector off of Scott, but quickly found out it does the same damn thing. A while back I talked to Tommy and Jerry a couple of times about this. Jerry said he's seen a couple of them act this way, but never figured it out, so the odds are against me. I'm not giving up as it does work when it warms up. There has got to be something simple being over looked. I'll take another look at it tomorrow. Oh and does anyone know what adjustment this is? - I will take the cap off and see what gives with that. Larry
|
|
|
Post by baknblack on Feb 20, 2008 7:53:30 GMT -5
The rack is attached to a lever. The throttle lever pushes a spring against another spring I'd start with the springs, try different combos. Who knows, you might get lucky.
|
|
3RRL
Administrator
Huge Kama
Posts: 2,027
|
Post by 3RRL on Feb 20, 2008 11:49:59 GMT -5
Rob - The rack is attached to a lever. The throttle lever pushes a spring against another spring loaded pivoting arm. That spring loaded pivoting arm seems to tie together the throttle, Rotating flywheel (governor) and Kill lever.
Knowing that now, I'd do like Dwayne suggested. Try some different spring rates. You want enough spring tension to get that rack to move while still cold. But not anymore than that since it is tied into the kill and throttle etc. There is a good selection of springs you can get from most spring suppliers. Century spring comes to mind. I believe they have a "sampler", which has all kinds of small compression and extension springs for about 25 bucks you could try. another one is Brownell's gun supplies. He has spring kits for guns, but some might work for you?
That last thing you showed asking what it is... That might be the end cover of the rack. Not sure from that photo though. If it is, that's where you can adjust the fuel/air mixture for the rack. There should be two nuts to adjust. In one of my threads I explained where I messed with that and ended up setting it back to factory. Mine had a metal tab I needed to cut so it was intended not to mess with. Yours may not be that because like I said, I can't really tell from the photo. Rob-
|
|
biggkidd
CTW Expert
A World Away!!!
Posts: 226
|
Post by biggkidd on Feb 20, 2008 18:38:04 GMT -5
Larry, I have been thinking about this problem of yours since we talked last. The only thought I have is next time you run the tractor set the hand throttle at 1200 before you cut it off. Then see what it does when you start it back up cold. I have been doing this to make starting my Y485 easier. I don't have the problem you do but my engine is much harder to start cold. What I am hoping to find out by doing this is if you will have 1200 RPM at start up. If you do you will probably be able to move between low idle and 1200 after start up. I really don't know just throwing an idea out. But if this were to work then you could just move the throttle up high while the engine is hot and bypass your problem at cold start. Just food for thought. Never know it might work. KIDD
|
|
GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
|
Post by GuglioLS on Feb 20, 2008 19:55:39 GMT -5
BIGG KIDD: "The only thought I have is next time you run the tractor set the hand throttle at 1200 before you cut it off. Then see what it does when you start it back up cold"Hi there Larry K, Thanks for the suggestion. Yep good idea, tried that several times with no luck. I was going to mess around with it today, until I realized Esther and I are celebrating our 26th wedding anniversary. I will most likely get to mess around with it (the injector)this weekend. Thinking about the mechanics of your suggested makes me believe there must me a spring that returns the rack back to idle as it cools off. Larry
|
|
biggkidd
CTW Expert
A World Away!!!
Posts: 226
|
Post by biggkidd on Feb 20, 2008 20:45:36 GMT -5
HUH thats strange, Mine starts up at whatever RPM I cut it off at. until I realized Esther and I are celebrating our 26th wedding anniversary. [glow=red,2,300] CONGRATS[/glow] Have a good one. KIDD
|
|
|
Post by bracabric on Feb 21, 2008 7:49:11 GMT -5
Larry and Esther, have a great day and many congratulations
Dick
|
|
carld
CTW Member
Posts: 81
|
Post by carld on Feb 22, 2008 15:37:22 GMT -5
I read about Larry's delima before and thouht a lot about it. So much so that I almost bought a injector pump to tear down and see for my self. From working on diesel pumps in the past the only thing I can see is if there is not a hard link between the throttle arm and the rack shaft, that is it is linked by the flywheights and springs, then there must be some binding when cold causing the rack shaft to stick requardless of the pressure exerted by the springs and flyweights.
There is no lift pump in our systems and it is gravity feed to the pump body. From there the piston pumps operated by the cam provide the pressure to each popoff injector.
The only thing I can imagine happening is that for some reason the rack won't move and allow the pistons to pump full pressure to the injectors.
Untill I am forced to remove and tear down my inj. pump I will not know for sure. Since I am retired and on social security and have limited funds I will not buy a pump just to tear down untill forced to.
Edit: well, nosey got the best of reason and I snaped the cap on a complete inj pump to tear down and inspect. It was a reasonable price and if posible I may start rebuilding the pumps and injectors. We'll see how it goes.
|
|
GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
|
Post by GuglioLS on Feb 23, 2008 18:49:29 GMT -5
There is no lift pump in our systems and it is gravity feed to the pump body. From there the piston pumps operated by the cam provide the pressure to each popoff injector. Carl, These injector pumps do in fact have a cam driven fuel pump, the pump is an integral part of the hand priming pump, so they actually do draw fuel from the tank, and create pressurized fuel to feed the high pressure pistons. Here is a picture of the fuel / primer pump along with the infamous in-line filter screen inside the banjo bolt. There is no binding of the fuel rack in this pump, I think I may have a solution to the problem, it's just a matter of getting out to the barn and testing my theory. Larry
|
|
GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
|
Post by GuglioLS on Feb 25, 2008 2:38:12 GMT -5
Check this out - It's FIXED!!!! I got immediate throttle response after backing out a spring loaded pin that prevents throttle response when cold. As far as I can tell, the sole purpose of that damn thing is to prevent throttle response when the injector is cold. Backing out the screw had no effect whatsoever on any other operation or performance of the injector. This is a done deal. I took apart the sacrificial Injector pump to see what makes that spring pin tick - This has been driving me nuts for almost 3 years, turns out it's a simple adjustment - Additionally the engine RPM is more response to load changes as the governor is quicker to react. After all it's no longer fighting against that temperature sensitive spring loaded pin. What a difference this has made in the overall performance, It's like a new tractor again. Thanks for all the interest and replies - Larry
|
|
red
CTW Advanced Member
Posts: 306
|
Post by red on Feb 25, 2008 5:44:16 GMT -5
Larry- We knew you would get to the bottom of it! Congratulations. -Ed
|
|
3RRL
Administrator
Huge Kama
Posts: 2,027
|
Post by 3RRL on Feb 25, 2008 12:11:55 GMT -5
Great find Larry! So the factory setting on both those pumps you have were too stiff? I mean the spring in there was set too tight for rack movement at cold temps. Shows you something about how spring rates are affected by heat. Keep that in mind.
As I said up above, that little cap on my Kama 554 injector pump covered up the adjustment for how much fuel the pump injected at each cycle. Thereby making it run richer or leaner since air flow is a constant. It is different than your pump I see now. Rob-
|
|
GuglioLS
Administrator
Jinma354 LE
Posts: 1,276
|
Post by GuglioLS on Feb 26, 2008 1:26:50 GMT -5
Red - Hey thanks man - I cant believe I waited this long to fix this She's running like a champ and now I don't have to wait forever and a day for throttle response. So the factory setting on both those pumps you have were too stiffRob - Yep that's right, both injectors were setup that way along with most of the TY395-E3 injectors. I have talked to a few dealers and owners about this over the years, they have seen the very same thing on the TY395-E3 engines. I was told the E-1 series of EPA engines do not have this issue, that is why I tried to get an E-1 injector pump, but as we know that did not happen. Anyway, I now have a spare E-3 injector in my stash of spare parts that works. I am supper happy now that it's running at 100%. The governor is much more responsive to load changes now that I loosened up the pressure on that spring. Maybe the word on this will get out and many owners experiencing the same frustration I did will get it taken care of. Larry
|
|