Rear Wheel Width Positions

[GuglioLS]

Thought I would post a little information on the different positions available for the rear wheels. (Unless of course your Matthew from Tasmania with really cool dually rear wheels) Your tractor will be more stable when the front and rear wheel widths are set to their widest position. For the fronts, it's a simple matter of swapping right for left and left for right, keeping the tread pattern in the proper direction.

The sketches below show the options available on the rear. My hand drawings are a little rough, but I think it illustrates the options:




Looking at the picture you can see there are 5 basic positions available, some of those positions are available without Swapping the tires). The wider positions are when the hub is reversed (cupped outward away from the tractor). Always keep the tire V tread facing the forward direction of travel. It's also advisable to keep the wheel weights on the inside, closest to the tractor. The school of thought is to keep as much weight closest to the center of the tractor. Doing that will reduce the force of inertia created when driving over a bump or rock. Especially when traversing parallel to a slope.

The standoff's that are welded to the inside of the rim are offset (not centered) That's why there are actually 5 positions or width settings, none of them will reverse the tire tread pattern.

Larry

[GuglioLS]

The following is a photo doc of setting the rear wheels on my Jinma 354 to their widest stance. The fronts were swapped two weeks ago when the wheel studs were replaced. The wider fronts made a big difference in stability. The turning radius did not suffer at all. The tractor was run in a circle on powdery dirt, then measured the inside diameter of the tire tracks. I got 18' 6" when the fronts were set to the stock (narrow) position. After swapping the fronts to get a wider stance, I repeated the circle experiment, this time the inside diameter of the tire tracks measured 18' 2" which is no surprise as the wheels moved out away from the tractor by 4". So my observation and experience is that the turning radius is not affected by wheel width.

OK so now lets get to work on the rears -

After parking the tractor on a nice flat concrete slab, a 3 ton floor jack was used under the draw hitch to lift the rear-end, then placed jack stands underneath the axle for safety.

Before removing the wheels, a reference measurement was taken so as to see how much width would be gained.



A weed digger with a long wood handle was used to lift the tire up and away from the lug studs. That worked OK but later on I used a shovel instead, as it allowed me to use both hands on the tire while I stepped on the shovel handle with my foot. That worked out much better.

Larry

[GuglioLS]

The wheel assembly is heavy and I'm working alone so I decided to use the FEL on my other tractor to flip the wheel hub with the wheel weights attached. The hub was unbolted from the rim, then lifted out, reversed then set back into place and re-bolted.

As long as the wheels are off it was a good time to tighten up all the nuts around the outer axle bearing housing. Do this now as you cant get to those nuts after the wheel is re-installed.





Larry

[GuglioLS]

Now that the hubs are reversed the wheels will be pushed out quite a bit. Also the wheel weights will now be on the inside closer to the tractor.

In this set of photos you can see that I'm now using the shovel instead of that other stupid thing to help position the wheel into place. There are some close details so you can see how to assemble everything to get the widest stance and still have the tread in the correct direction AND have the valve stems on the outside where they should be.



After setting out the hub in the opposite direction, the width gained per wheel is 4" (8" total)

Larry

[GuglioLS]

OK all done, no smashed toes, no pinched fingers, and no flames!
To celebrate I took Goldie out into the field, then made some tire tracks to make sure the 6' Rob-O-Larry-O 360* rotating blade would still cover my tracks so as not to leave any evidence of my presence. The wheel width is as wide as it can get, there is one inch to spare on either side of the blade so all is good ;D



Larry

[tuffytractor]

So, went to the widest set possible for my tractor, (I suppose I could copy Flick and go to double wheels, not yet...) wow is it a looooooooooot more stable on my hilly terrain.

This is where I started.


Got the wheels off and turned around but needed a helping hand from a pry bar with ballast.


While I was messing around under there, I noticed I had snapped another part/link.


So, I repaired it with a U link from my winch chain bag, it'll hold till I can get the right link.


Then I wrapped everything up, boy was I wide, gotta love that on a steep hillside.


I changed the front around as well, not only for stability but because my tire would occasionally rub my FEL mount Bracket, this solved those problems as a bonus.

I had kinda hoped when I got the box blade I hadn't gone overboard in getting the 6' box blade.


Looks like I just barely went big enough, when I cut gutters, I'll just barely clear the wheels. I also thought, I might need to think about extending the fenders, if I work in any wet conditions, or the tire muck is gonna fly everywhere.

I was fairly confused when I tried this at first, Larry's diagram finally sunk in and I began to understand how to get to the wide set. Thanks Larry!

[biggkidd]

Larry Tim,

Nice informative post. Yes I agree a flat bottom shovel is a tire changing tool when working on tractor tires. I set mine to the third or fourth widest position for the rears a while back. Still haven't done the fronts though. My question to you is does your FEL cover the front tires? I have found in the past when digging with a FEL if the front tires are wider than the FEL that causes problems. I don't want to go to the widest rear setting since getting in tight places is a constant battle with me.

Thanks again for all these great posts.

KIDD

[grohgreg]

Not to disparage anybody's work here - but I'd like to add a note of caution to 4wd owners considering widening the front track, especially on 200 Series Jinmas and loader equipped tractors with both 2wd and 4wd. Jinma manuals include a section on widening the rear track. But the simple absence of details relative to widening the 4wd front track should speak for itself.

The only way to widen the front track on 4wd models is to reverse the rims; concave out as opposed to the factory convex out. Doing so exposes the drive hubs. For some, this may not be an issue. For others who engage in travel over rough/rocky ground, you're putting your drive hubs and steering components at risk.

Widening the front hubs also changes the design geometry, which in turn alters the stress points. Steering forces change as well. The new geometry results in additional stress being placed on front end components that might exceed design tolerances. Performing loader work on reversed rims can only exaggerate the issue. Width-adjustable 2wd models aren't affected as severely. But again, think hard before using a wide track under a front loader.

Don't read this to be a scare tactic, it's just something to consider before arbitrarily reversing the rims up front. Personally, I feel the most stable platform is one where front and rear are spaced equally. My KM454 for example, factory front track is 66.5". I adjusted the rears to 66.5". A nice stable rectangle.

//greg//

[tuffytractor]

Greg,

Thanks for the warning. I had heard about problems with the 200 series, but not any about the 354's. I've got a weird mount for my FEL that also prompted me to opt for the wider stance in front as the tire was rubbing, when the tractor was on uneven ground.



Having heard the warnings I was careful with how I pushed it. I'm hopeful I won't end up trashing the front end... time will tell. So far, no problems.

[GuglioLS]

Great photo documentation Tim - you know you were the inspiration for me to get this done on my tractor. Man am I ever glad I did. Have you added fender flares? After widening mine, I don't find the wheels sticking out or mud flinging an issue.


....consider before arbitrarily reversing the rims up front...

Hi Greg,

Do you work on the sides of hills or mountains? Or have a bucket full of material, having to traverse a hill side without dumping the material or tipping your tractor?

I don't think any of us who did this, did it arbitrarily, it was a conscious, purposeful decision to greatly improve the stability of our tractors on mountainous hilly terrain. The improvement in stability is dramatic. I'm not sure if you've seen the size of the bearings in the front hub assemblies on these 354's? When I tore mine apart to replace the front wheel studs, I was impressed how beefy the hub assembly is. IMHO the effect of any fractional increase in stress on those bearings is didly squat. I've been using the tractor for about six months in this configuration and would never go back to the narrow setting, the difference is like night and day. And yes I use the FEL over heaped with dirt, rocks, or stumps. I think Tim has his set wide for well over a year now with no problems - is that right Tim?

Overall I think the widest stance possible affords the most safety and stability and out weighs any risks to tractor damage whether it be real of perceived.

I'm pretty sure Ronald @ Ranch Hand Supply sets all the wheels out to the widest position on ALL the tractors he sells, including the 200 series. If it were that catastrophic an issue I'm sure he would be going out of business fixing all the broken front end components on the tractors he warrants. Is that Right Ronald?

The only way to widen the front track on 4wd models is to reverse the rims; concave out as opposed to the factory convex out.

Yea even I was able to figure that out. I do believe that's what Rob, Tim, myself and others have done. When I reversed my fronts, I noticed the stud holes were tapered on BOTH sides of the wheel for the lug nuts. Just because it does not say so in the manual does not mean it cannot be done. Who reads those lousy manuals anyway?

KIDD - My fronts are about 2" (each side) wider than the bucket. Looks just like the picture Tim posted. Since I have a Box Blade, Scraper blade, BH and Dozer I don't find it necessary to try and dig with the FEL. IMHO FEL's on this size a tractor are not really meant for or designed for digging. It's my understanding the intended use is really meant for scooping up loose material from a pile. Not that it's doesn't work, it's just a pain in the ass to get any efficient digging done with a FEL. I did put on a tooth bar for digging down 2-3 inches at a time, but that's about as much stress I'm willing to put on it. Any big holes get dug with the BH, light scraping use the Box blade or back blade, serious scraping - break out the Komatsu Dozer

Do you use your FEL for digging? How does that work out for you? I bet digging out soft soil works darn good. I don't have soft soil, so I don't dig much with the FEL.

Larry

[Ranch Hand]

gugliols said:

Overall I think the widest stance possible affords the most safety and stability and out weighs any risks to tractor damage whether it be real of perceived.

I'm pretty sure Ronald @ Ranch Hand Supply sets all the wheels out to the widest position on ALL the tractors he sells, including the 200 series. If it were that catastrophic an issue I'm sure he would be going out of business fixing all the broken front end components on the tractors he warrants. Is that Right Ronald?

Who reads those lousy manuals anyway?


Larry

You are correct Larry !.

The front wheel stud holes are tapered on both sides and you will find that on most rims ( all makes ) with tapered lug nuts that are mfd with an off set to be fliped.

I also think those manuals are as worthless as tits on a bore hog.

If I was not the first ....... I was one of the first to start fliping rims and posting it on the boards. He likes to attack me on most of my post/opinions and preach out of the China manuals.

Here is an example

CLICK HERE

Each to there own. I am a repair shop that sells Jinma tractors not a seller and by the way we can work on it.

There is no way I would be setting my tractors up for problems. Happy customers is what has always made my repair shops grow since 1989.


Wider is safer. Always think counter weight, rear tires biteing the ground on all tractors when doing loader work in 4x4. Some would be surprized that 4x4 engagement is not needed with proper counter weight.

get-r-done

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

[grohgreg]

Yes, I've live on and work 30 acres of diagonal. It's all pasture and woodland; thin topsoil, chock full of sandstone (limestone in the wooded areas). Even the snakes have trouble here. I mow some sidehills and embankments that would make your toes turn up. And no, I don't "dig" with a loader. If I had a "digger", I'd dig. But I have a loader, so I "load". The Koyker 160 is only designed to scrape 4" safely below the horizontal operating line anyway.

My post was offered as an opinion, yet two of you choose to view it as criticism. I can't control your end, but really - would both of you to simply re-read my post? Please? Look specifically for I said anything critical of anyone, and point it out to me. I am more than willing to correct the error of my ways. The OP covered widening the rear track wonderfully. I merely wanted to voice my personal concerns about widening the FRONT track on certain tractors under certain conditions.

Tuffy - yes, the JM354 is reported to have a significantly beefier front end. If the situation dictated, I'd reverse the 354 front rims long before I'd ever consider doing in on a 4wd 200 series. But still, think hard before reversing front rims if you're going to do a lot of aggressive loader work.

LS - again, I didn't accuse anybody here of doing anything arbitrarily. My post was a simply counterpoint to ANYBODY ELSE who might read this thread and (arbitrarily) contemplate reversing THEIR OWN front rims - specifically those with 4wd 200 series Jinmas. You're responding from the perspective of a 300 series owner. Oh - and you can bet the rims are generic, explaining tapered lug holes on both sides.

And Ronald - I'm at a loss. I could say " Gesundheit ", and you'd find some way to interpret it as a personal attack.

//greg//

[FLICK]

Here's my 2cents worth...

If you work on steep ground get all your wheels as wide as possible, widening the fronts makes a HUGE difference to the stability.... It's well worth doing...

So what if you add extra stress to the front end, it's much better than constantly feeling like your going to tip over... and front end repairs are a lot cheaper than rollover repairs and bodily damage

I couldn't do 90% of the work I do with my DF if the fronts were in the narrow position (even with the dual rears, when the fronts were narrow it always felt like it wanted to tip diagnally forward)

Narrow:


Wide:



Matthew.

[porky69]

One thing to remember is that due to the side to side articulation of the front axle, the front end contributes jack squat for stability until the axle hits the stops.

[3RRL]

porky69 said:

One thing to remember is that due to the side to side articulation of the front axle, the front end contributes jack squat for stability until the axle hits the stops.

Hi Porky and welcome.
I know what you mean about hitting the stops, but I beg to differ about the other.

Put your tractor sideways on a fairly steep slope, just shy of tipping over. (don't do this really but rather to illustrate a point. )
You'll find the axle and tractor are parallel with the slope. In other words, the whole tractor is tilted but the axle is not tilted or against the stops, relative to the tractor. Once you start moving across the slope, the gentle nudges of the terrain and gravity might be enough to tip you over if the stance was narrower. I believe a wider front stance helps in that instance, even without having to hit the stops. Surely just the effort to make the front axle pivot takes some kind of force and that offers some kind of resistance?

Yes, hitting the stops will surely make a difference with a wider front stance. But my point is I still think it makes a difference even before that happens. I can't tell you exactly how much difference it makes, but I can tell you it does make a difference. Even a slight improvement for me would be better than not. Perhaps Brad, our resident genius can calculate it out using physics, taking into consideration all factors such as CG and momentum from a loader etc? Maybe he can prove it one way or the other?
Anyway, that would be good to know since I've already stated what I think.

Rob-