Made a deal for a hoe

[quikduk]

Excellent job Brad! BTW, the spool valve appears to be a sectional model so all of the parts should be available. I would say that a beefy subframe is right at or near the top of the list so you don't make two tractors out of the Kama.

[bradblazer]

Thanks Jake, Rob, & Ken!

I haven't had time to do much more but I am gathering parts. Larry was right - the swing spool is damaged.


I took the valve off last night. The tough part was the pivot pin through all of the handles. It was rusted in and it took a lot of beating to remove it.



I called Baum Hydraulics today and they were very helpful. They had a new spool section in stock to replace the swing valve as well as a whole new set of seals and a power beyond sleeve. About $200 total.
Man, I'll have $2700+ in this thing by the time I'm done!

I ordered those loader cylinders from Surplus Center.


I found this pdf manual for a backhoe (not mine) that has some nice Gresen valve drawings around page 50.
www.allmand.com/408%20Parts.pdf

[GuglioLS]

I ordered those loader cylinders from Surplus Center
Hum, looks like you got a few other "unauthorized" items in that Surplus Center box, better hide that pneumatic impact wrench.

Man, I'll have $2700+ in this thing by the time I'm done! Oh that's just terrible , better sell it to me quick to minimize any further loss.

So the spool was damaged - looks like a couple chunks missing. How's the body look? Are you getting a matched spool and valve body? I just got a new surplus center catalog and saw a complete six spool backhoe valve set for ~ $600. Does the boom valve on that thing have a float position?


Larry

[quikduk]

Brad:

Larry beat me to that one. I just got my SC catalog too and saw that new 6-spool backhoe valve.

I was curious about the matching body as well since wouldn't the damage to the spool translate to damage in the body? Whas that what you were referring to as a "whole new section"?

Great job on the investigative work!

[bradblazer]

Thanks Larry and Ken,
The damage looks to me like some foreign material got in the valve and someone just worked the lever to clear it. The replacement is a complete valve that will bolt to the originals. It was $152. The rest is a bunch of O-rings and backing rings, etc.

I just tried albiet without the lever but the boom valve does not seem to have float. I guess that would reduce the coordination required to make a flat bottom trench?

I think I did see this while I was looking:
www.surpluscenter.com/pages/014.pdf
I guess I could have done like Rob and used the old valves for additional remotes. Of course that would inevitably lead to about $2000 in making everything that could possibly benefit hydraulic. I still can in the future. ;D

I actually didn't notice the spool damage when I first took it apart. It looked nice and shiney for the most part. When I talked to the Don at Baum Hydraulics he assured me the behavior I was seeing was not something to be fixed with seals. The replacement valve seemed reasonable so I went with that.

That impact wrench was purchased last year without authorization. I used it throttled down to remove the check valve plugs. Those yellow bars are the levers. One of the phenolic knobs shattered while I was beating that pin out so I ordered 4 new ones at McMaster. They were $1.59 each. There you go - the part I touch will be BRAND NEW! McMaster actually sells the o-rings and Teflon backer rings if I would have measured the ones I needed. It would have actually cost about the same but I would have gotten a 100 pack of each size from McMaster.

Brad

[GuglioLS]

Well that explains just about everything except what are you going to use to control the new hydraulic outrigger cylinders? Or did you mention that already and I missed it, or forgot? Oh never mind, now I remember - you were going to use the remotes already on the Kama. Can you reach them while seated in the hoe? When you master operating the beast, one thing that comes in handy is the ability to position the tractor (left, right, fore, aft) using only the hoe and not leaving the seat.

The Boom on the Bradco has float, as you surmised, it comes in handy for flat bottom digging.

How's the sub frame design coming along? and are you ever going to install TNT?

Larry

[bradblazer]

Well, I hope the extra reach of the big hoe makes up for the inconvenience of operating the stabilizers from the tractor seat.

For the sub frame I'm pretty much planning a vertical post behind each axle where the ROPS and loader subframe are sandwiched, stiffening the loader subframe where it connects to the axle. The vertical rise will let me avoid excessive loading of the 3ph lift box.

Something like this:


TNT - someday...

[GuglioLS]

Well, I hope the extra reach of the big hoe makes up for the inconvenience of operating the stabilizers from the tractor seat. OK keep rubbing it in, you must know by now I'm jealous of that beast.

Your sub-frame design concept looks simple enough. Hopefully it will be as easy in practice as it is in theory. Hey wait a minute, I thought you used Gorilla glue to seal the TPH lift box? Won't that hold

On another topic, I have a question for you - do you think the base end on those cylinders you got for the outriggers could be milled down to 2" wide? I ask because those cylinders look like they would be perfect to up-size the ones on my FEL.

Thanks Brad,

Larry

[bradblazer]

Apr 23, 2008 23:18:42 GMT -5 GuglioLS said:

On another topic, I have a question for you - do you think the base end on those cylinders you got for the outriggers could be milled down to 2" wide? I ask because those cylinders look like they would be perfect to up-size the ones on my FEL.

If you look at the drawing you posted on p.2 of this thread, the vertical stripe is the weld line. Everything to the left of that is solid so you should be able to mill it.

[3RRL]

Brad,
What's the latest on the yellow backhoe beast?

[bradblazer]

Apr 30, 2008 10:00:35 GMT -5 3RRL said:

Brad,
What's the latest on the yellow backhoe beast?

Not much new activity. I did receive all of the parts I ordered to get everything in shape including the replacement swing valve, new seals, and power beyond sleeve.

I'm concentrating on finishing the fence project - should have the whole thing at 7' next weekend. I'll have to get some fresh pics of that.

Last week I borrowed my buddy's new 72" KK tiller and tilled three neighbor's gardens with the Kama. Ran in 1 low 1100 RPM with the PTO in high range for maximum pulverization. It's a real nice attachment.

I'm just about ready to file a pro-se patent for my brother Brian. I can share it after it's filed. Pretty cool. Lots of work. Luckily I have an application at work that's just about ready for filing so it was a good refresher on what goes in one. I am really starting to appreciate what the lawyers do to prepare them.

Even at work I'm wrapping up a long term project. Looking forward to having time for new fun stuff like that backhoe!

Brad

[3RRL]

How much longer will your work keep you away from the backhoe project Brad?
I'd be interested to hear more how good it works. It sure seems like a powerful sucker!

[bradblazer]

Won't be long now - I was just cleaning out the shop today to and arranging some of that stuff. My brother Greg will be visiting from Wisconsin later this week and thru the weekend so it will be after that. If I was more on the ball I would have had some stuff ready for him to weld. He's a steamfitter.
It's his first time visiting NC with his kids though so we'll be busy doing fun stuff like boating and hiking in the mountains. I am pretty sure his kids have never even seen mountains. He's at Brian's in Alabama right now.

That 4wd shaft is dripping again and I want to fix it before I do the subframe. I might add a brace to the threaded mounting points on the bottom of the engine on either side of that shaft.

Those mounting points are visible on your picture here:

[3RRL]

Yes, I see them.
If I'm not mistaken there are several tapped holes that can be used. When I made my subframe, I was tractor-new and wasn't sure if it was legal to use them. I think your idea is great. What would be even better if there were tapped holes in the transfer and transmission cases too. Your brace could span all three cases, tying them all together for a bullet proof subframe. In addition to the bolts holding them all together, it keeps the cases from trying to work apart under stress.
Anyway, we are anxiously waiting to see the next segment of your backhoe project. You sure got a good deal, and I'm especially jealous that your hoe will have that much more digging and ripping power, let alone reach. Wish mine did!
Rob-

[bradblazer]

Finally back at it. Nothing too exciting yet. I replaced all of the valve seals. The two boom valve sections have their own relief valves. Here is one of them apart outside of it's port.


Overhead of the relief.


Check valve facing it.


The original backer rings were white nylon-looking plastic split rings. The new ones are continuous black plastic that is stretchable enough to get them in place. They are directional. In the picture the top two are o-rings and the bottom two are backers with opposite sides up. Can you tell which side is cupped to fit the o-ring? I had to wear my glasses. Actual OD is about like you see in the thumbnail.


Here is the relief body with the new seals in place.


One thing left to do is find fittings for the new spool. The old spool ports take 1/2" o-ring fittings. The new section has bigger threads. 1/2nptf will screw all the way in but the fit is super loose. I hauled the valve to Northern and nothing they had would fit. I looked up some sizes online and figured out it must have 5/8" o-ring ports. That is 14tpi just like the 1/2"npt but with a slightly larger OD. I found just the fitting here:
fittingsandadapters.stores.yahoo.net/45malortonps.html
$27.50 with shipping for two "4-10-6" elbows.
I'll call Baum tomorrow and see if I can get any mileage from them since I was assured the new valve had the same ports as the old one.

Brad