New Bucket for an old FEL

[GuglioLS]

For all the regulars here on CTW, it's no secret in addition to my Jinma 354, I own an antique (1953) Ford NAA tractor aka a Golden Jubilee. It has a modern Bradco backhoe attached and a FEL that is as old as the tractor. The original FEL lift cylinders were single action, (power lift, gravity lower) about 5 years ago when I installed the BH, I removed those old cylinders and upgraded them to 2.5" ID double action. At that same time the FEL valve was upgraded to double action with a detent float position. Doing those mods made a huge improvement in power and convenience of operation.

One important item remained to be upgraded on the FEL to become fully modern and easier to operate and that is the bucket and the means to dump it. As you see it is a trip bucket that is only about 40" wide.

Another item of particular note is the side that the valve is mounted on. That's where it was from day one. Since I had purchased this tractor about 26 years ago, I had no idea that valves are now normally mounted on the right side, so naturally when I upgraded the cylinders and valve I put the new valve on the same side and have become used to it there.

Now that I am going to upgrade again to a two spool valve, remove the trip handle and install cylinders for the bucket, do you think I should re-locate the valve to the right side? My hesitation in doing so is that all the plumbing is now configured to be on the left, moving it to the right side would require quite a bit of hydraulic hose, fittings and re-routing. There is also a flow divider to control the fluid flow to the BH in the mix, so I would have to relocate that too.

What do you think I should do? Move it to the right? Or put the new valve on the left? I've been on the fence about making a decision; perhaps your input will help me decide the right thing to do.

Hear are a few pics showing the 2.5" double acting cylinders, front, back and side views of the trip bucket, the valve on the left and trip handle on the right.



Larry

[GuglioLS]

One day while taking a break during a road trip, I was browsing around my favorite equipment auction yard (the same place where I scored my Komatsu dozer). I came across a pair of 60" skid steer buckets. Well next thing you know one of them is in the back of my van. ;D

When I got home, I fired up the Jinma and used the grapple to extract the new bucket from the back of the van.





Larry

[GuglioLS]

With a little bit of research, I found a universal skid steer QA (Quick Attach) adapter that will fit the FEL on the ole' Ford so I ordered one off the internet. It was shipped to me UPS ground and received it in only a couple of days.



This is the goal: Remove the old bucket and replace it with this new skid steer bucket, add two cylinders to operate the bucket and add a new two spool valve......



These are the parts rounded up so far to get this done:



The valve is a 2 spool, open center, 25 GPM Prince with power beyond, float, load checks, pressure relief, etc, etc.... It's a large valve. The cylinders are 33" retracted, 23" stroke. I got a hole drawer of fittings, some hose, re-usable hose ends, and some DOM to make bushings. I have some pins on order and hope to get them soon.

Larry

[quikduk]

Larry,

Since no one has voted yet, I would say re-route and put the loader valve on the right so it is the same as Goldie.

Then again, apparently I like to complicate things so...

Unless Esther or you are particularly ambidextrous...or predominately left-handed, I would think the right side would be easier.

(Rob OTOH found himself a left-handed wife so he could call himself ambidextrous... ;D )

You guys have been very ambitious lately. I "should" really pay more attention...but a nap sounds good right about now...ZZZZZZZZZ

[GuglioLS]

Since no one has voted yet, I would say re-route and put the loader valve on the right so it is the same as Goldie.
Sounds like a good plan Ken, and that's what I'll do.

Larry

[GuglioLS]

Made a little progress yesterday.
Cut off these two clevis ends that were welded on right in the way of where the bucket cylinders needed to be. Then started to make a mounting bracket for the new valve....





Larry

[GuglioLS]

The piece of channel being cut in the first pic is from the original shipping crate of my Jinma. I decided to use 3/8" studs essentially spot welded to the mounting plate for the valve...





Larry

[GuglioLS]

After welding studs in place and allowing to cool, the mounting channel bracket was welded onto the valve plate. In the first pic you can see I will be using spacers to lift the valve up off the plate about 3/4". That is being done to allow enough clearance for the rubber boot and for full range of motion of the joy stick. Some of the challenges mounting this valve is it's large, getting it located where it will not in the way, still be within easy reach be able to get on and off the tractor from either side, and route all the hoses to and from it. Also of consideration is not getting in the way of any maintenance item on the tractor, like be able to still fill it with gas, or remove the battery, etc...



Here is the new valve located on the right side as Ken suggested. Next was to remove the open center plug from the valve and install the power beyond plug and return to tank fittings...



Thats what I got done yesterday.


Larry

[3RRL]

Another great improvement project Larry,
You crack me up using all that scrap and turning it into something useful...reminds me of some one? ;D I'm glad you decided to mount the new controls on the right side. I would've voted but I was out of town on a mini vacation attending a golf tournament. Glad to see you are keeping the place busy with interesting projects Larry.
Rob-

[GuglioLS]

Hi Rob,

Welcome back from your golf tournament. I was getting worried about you being gone. I imagine you had a great time being back on the greens, how did you do?

This is the latest progress report:
While Rob was out puttering around I was busy re-plumbing the old tractor. After welding the new valve bracket to the FEL upright support cross tube. I removed ALL the old plumbing... hoses, valve, took apart and cleaned all the fittings, removed the flow divider and control valve for the back hoe, and the back hoe hoses. Man what allot of stuff to remove. After doing all that, relocated and re-plumb everything in a new location. The goal was to re-use as much of the old hose and fittings as possible, and route everything as clean and neat as I could. The supply and return lines are 3/4" hose, working with that stuff is like wrestling one of those 8 foot rattle snakes you've seen at Rob's rattlesnake ranch.

One thing missing from the old setup was a pressure gauge. So I ordered a liquid filled 0-3000 PSI gauge from surplus center. It came in yesterday afternoon. So I got busy modifying a 3/4" 90* street elbow to accept the gauge. When drilling and taping the fitting I was surprised how soft the metal is. The drill and tap cut through like butter. I used a copper washer to seal the joint.



In the center picture, to the right of my hydraulic soaked and dirt covered canvas slip-ons is the flow control / flow divider for the back hoe, I have it set somewhere around 6 GPM. The direct drive crank shaft pulley driven hydraulic pump on the tractor puts out ~ 12 GPM. Seems like allot but it's perfect for those two 2.5" ID x 30" stroke lift cylinders for the FEL.



I've still got to plumb new hose and fittings for the new bucket dump / curl back cylinders. But first the cylinders have to be installed so I know where to run the hose.

Larry

[GuglioLS]

Now that all the plumbing and re-routing is complete, it was time to attach the QA and Skid steer bucket to get a handle on which pin holes to use and at what height and distance to mount the base end from the FEL arms. I gave up on trial and error so I'm drawing the whole darn thing up in auto cad to figure it out "on paper" instead of breaking my back on the real thing.



Once I fine tune cylinder placement in relation to the choice of three cylinder pin holes. I will need to sketch up a set of four cylinder mounting brackets and have them plasma cut. So lots of figuring and work left to do.

Larry

[GuglioLS]

Made a little more progress machining pins and bushings. Two of the pins needed to be modified to accept grease fittings. Those pins are the ones to be installed into the FEL arms as the original FEL had no fittings at those pivot points. All the bushings will be welded to the QA brackets. The shoulders of the pins were turned off to give the pins a little more usable length and to use the pre-drilled holes for retaining the pins into the bushings.







Larry

[GuglioLS]

This series of photos shows the setup to transfer the OEM holes in the pins to the bushings.



Next is to weld all the bushings onto the QA FEL mounting brackets. With any luck, I hope to get that done sometime later today.

Larry

[bradblazer]

Larry,
Very nice machining pics. You are cranking out lots of parts! Hope the welding went well. It's always challenging to get those bushings to line up for a nice fit welded.

My dad used to have an International 300 with a Freeman loader with the s/a lift cylinders and a manual trip to dump. Fully hydraulic is so much better! That will be a nice(er) TLB when you are finished.

Nice chop saw by the way.

Any thoughts of adding a ROPS? A 4 poster anchored to the rear axle and loader towers with a nice big sunshade would be the heat.

Brad

[GuglioLS]

Welding bushings onto the FEL QA adapter brackets required the bushings be clamped square and tight against the brackets. A couple of 8" long X 1" dia bolts came in handy for that.




After everything cooled to ambient temperature, the clamping bolts were removed to test fit the FEL arms. Everything seems to line up quite nicely. The FEL brackets still need welding to the QA adapter. I'll get to that later. The last pic on the left is a prototype bracket for attaching the base end of the cylinder to the FEL arms. That bracket was drawn up in auto-cad, printed out on four 8-1/2" x 11" sheets of paper, then transfered to some cardboard for a test fit. Once I finalize the size and shape. I'll get 4 of them plasma cut out of 3/8" plate steel.



Any suggestions on the bracket? should I punch some holes in it near the base end for additional welding points?

Larry