3RRL
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Huge Kama
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Post by 3RRL on Sept 17, 2009 10:24:39 GMT -5
I managed to bore the 1.5" bushing holes with the fly cutter. The Cobalt steel tool I first used was dulling after 1 cut so I went to a lathe tool with a carbide insert. I think the scale on the inside of the hole was dulling the steel. The plasma start notch chipped my insert so I had to rotate it. Nice progress on the grapple project Brad, A machining tip for you, if you don't mind... We all have trouble machining the flame hardened surface that results when metal is cut off using the plasma or any other flame type cutter. Next time, try to leave some stock on those holes or areas where you will be establishing the dimension via machining. You can then set the tool to go slightly past the hardened crust and cut into the softer material. In your second to last photo, I see your tool needs a large 45° on the cutting edge ... much like the "chipped off" part of the carbide insert. Grind that one to a good sized 45° chamfer with very little back relief. Hopefully you have a diamond wheel or a silicon carbide "green" wheel for the carbide grinding? It (the large lead in 45°) will cut that hardened stuff out much better than the sharper leading edge of the new insert. Try that. Use the new insert edge to finish to your dimension. Rob-
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Sept 18, 2009 0:01:56 GMT -5
Looks good so far. Glad to see you made time cleaning up holes for the bushings. Seeing the parts again remind me how sharp the outside plasma cut edges came out. Looks like removing the taper from the ID of the bushing holes is a done deal. The real challenge comes when clamping cylinder brackets perfectly square to the 2" cross tube, after that it's getting the jaws clamped and welded to the cross tube and having them parallel to each other. As a tip use two adjustable pipe clamps run through both cross tubes to the outside of the jaws. That works like a charm giving plenty of clamping force with ability to make fine tuning adjustments prior to welding.
Your grapple is going to be awesome.
Larry
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Post by bradblazer on Sept 18, 2009 19:58:35 GMT -5
Rob, Thanks for the tips. I do have a grinder with the green wheels and I'll put a 45 on that corner of the insert. I suppose the torch cuts so fast that the cut surface gets quenched by the surrounding cool metal. Larry, Thanks for the setup tips. I really like the clamp through the cross-tube idea. My weekends are pretty booked right now but I'm trying work on the grapple in the evenings (when I'm not bushed). I went over to my buddy's house last night to check out his "new" toy. He picked up a used JD310se backhoe. Cab with A/C, self leveling 4-in-1 bucket, extend-a-hoe with 18 & 36" buckets. Specs are incredible: www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/media/non_current_pdfs/noncurrent_backhoes/310SE.pdfI scooped up some dirt and played around a little. I couldn't get used to the joysticks after using my 4-lever. Some functions are switched hand to hand. Matthew even tried it out. What a monster! It's clamshell control for the 4-in-1 is a separate lever alongside the loader joystick. The button on the loader joystick is a transmission clutch release . Anyhow - back to the GRAPPLE - I am thinking a separate manual lever valve alongside my loader joystick would be somewhat easier and less expensive to install than a solenoid valve. What do you guys think? Brad
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Post by bradblazer on Sept 18, 2009 20:26:13 GMT -5
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Sept 18, 2009 20:49:37 GMT -5
I am thinking a separate manual lever valve alongside my loader joystick would be somewhat easier and less expensive to install than a solenoid valve. What do you guys think?
I think being able to work the bucket and grapple simultaneously with one hand is most desirable. If you can do that by adding a separate valve that's great. I suppose the advantage to having a spool valve is being able to feather the grapple cylinder. But you will find feathering is not really used as you will just be clamping down. A solenoid with a momentary rocker switch mounted on the loader joystick is very convenient. It allows a natural way to grapple and scoop onto any object. My experience is such that most of the time I find myself "clam shelling" to pick up rocks and logs. For brush I just drive into it and clamp down, pick up and transport. A solenoid and D03 sub plate will run about 150 clams and worth the convenience IMHO. Since the jaws were virtually free, why not splurge and go with a solenoid and a fancy schmancy joystick handle with thumb switch? Hoses and fittings for a valve VS a solenoid will be a wash. A solenoid can be mounted anywhere.
That's my nickels worth.
Larry
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Sept 18, 2009 21:11:53 GMT -5
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3RRL
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Post by 3RRL on Sept 18, 2009 21:52:50 GMT -5
Brad, I strongly agree with Larry on this one. The convenience of the rocker switch on the joystick handle is unbeatable IMHO. If you subtract the cost of the spool valve , it won't be so bad. Plus you'll have a righteous set up for the rest of your grappling life. If you go to Loretta's thread about adding her My Very Own Grapples, all the components for the solenoid valve are listed with links to them. Look there starting at reply #33. My Very Own GrapplesRob-
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Sept 18, 2009 23:10:35 GMT -5
Hi Rob, I was thrilled to get your call tonight, it was just like old times. I tried following the links in Loretta's "My very own grapples" They seem to be broken. Surplus Center must have changed the URL's so here are some fresh ones. SolenoidSub PlateConnectorLarry
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3RRL
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Huge Kama
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Post by 3RRL on Sept 19, 2009 10:12:46 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the new links Larry, I didn't realize the ones in Loretta's old thread were broken old old? Brad, in dong some searching, there are other similar products by different manufacturers that might even be more cost effective. Or search those part numbers for the cheapest prices? For example, here's a link to some other brands, some made in China etc. Lots of Pilot Operated Solenoid ValvesI didn't open every link to see the functions and prices, but you could search to see if you could get something like that over here? Rob-
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Post by bradblazer on Sept 19, 2009 13:55:15 GMT -5
Thanks guys for all of the solenoid valve info. Does that sub plate have separate power beyond and return line connections? Maybe it doesn't matter so much for this application?
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Sept 19, 2009 21:22:03 GMT -5
Hey Brad,
What did you decide on the cylinder length question in reply #35?
Sub plates have no power beyond only Pump, Tank, port A and B, no pressure relief either. Pressure relief is provided by the up-stream FEL valve. Feed the sub plate from the power beyond output port of your FEL valve. Doing it that way will allow simultaneous motion of both the FEL and grapple, sometimes referred to as "true third function"
Larry
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Post by bradblazer on Sept 19, 2009 22:06:33 GMT -5
Hey Brad, What did you decide on the cylinder length question in reply #35? ...Snip Snip.. Oh yeah, good catch! I need the 8" cylinder. That Agri Supply price is nice. I'll spend more on hose and fittiings. The only thing downstream of the grapple valve will be the 3ph the way you are describing it. It would be pretty difficult to activate that simultaneous with the grapple. Thanks,
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3RRL
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Post by 3RRL on Sept 19, 2009 23:20:31 GMT -5
Hahaha, I'm sure Larry means you get true third function when operating the grapple and the fel controls. However, be aware that you will need to "feather" the fel joystick or either all the flow will go to the fel movement(s) or to the grapple. If we had greater flow hydraulic pumps, the true third function would be easier to realize. But feathering the joystick will give you true third function even with our puny hydraulic pumps. You just have to practice with it a little. Simultaneous grapple and fel movement is shown in this video taken several years ago when I installed my old dual grapple set up. Rob-
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Sept 19, 2009 23:45:57 GMT -5
No doubt that Agri supply cylinder price is excellent. It would be pretty difficult to activate that simultaneous with the grapple. The way I envision the plumbing is this way: Sub plate fed by the PB output from the FEL, then the tank out of the sub plate goes to the TPH (a series circuit) If you do not have a PB out sleeve on the FEL valve, the best bet is to get one from Koyker (about $20). After installing the PB sleeve, route the "to tank" output from the FEL valve to an unrestricted path back to the tank. The FEL PB out now gets routed to the sub plate, then from the sub plate to the input of the TPH. That is how you will be able to get true simultaneous operation of the FEL, grapple, even the TPH cylinder if you wanted to (and could somehow reach it at the same time). That is how Rob, Ken, myself and others have done it to get true third functions. Perhaps your thinking "third function" means to operate three cylinders? My understanding of the hydraulic term "Third Function" is being able to operate two independent cylinders independently (two functions) or two independent cylinders simultaneously (Third function). Larry
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GuglioLS
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Post by GuglioLS on Sept 20, 2009 0:13:36 GMT -5
LOL - Rob's right on, I didn't mean for you to be able to operate the FEL, Grapple and the TPH all at the same time, although you could if you were really determined to.
Hey Rob I remember that video, it was as cool then as it is now. I bet it works even better now that you have the 320 pump installed.
Larry
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